Independent Primary - spaces at year 2 but will be oversubscribed at year 3 - WWYD?

[jasperc163]

DD1 was offered a place at local prep at reception but we had to tun it down (but stayed on waiting list) due to redundancy/general belt tightening as recession hit. We have been trying to get to a point where we could commit to sending her this september (Year 2), as we had understood there were places then but that things could get tight by year 3.

Was just about to go to see school about this but got an email yesterday informing us that whilst there were still 3 spaces max left for start of Year 2, they were already oversubscribed for year 3 (when they move from 3 smaller to 2 larger classes). The bottom line is that they were saying we could have a space in Year 2 but that unless there were some children leaving during the year, they would have to ask up to 4 to leave at the end of year 2 (last in first out obviously). Is this common? It seems incredible to me..

We are gutted as now I can't see that there are any options. Interested to know if anyone here would actually consider taking that risk? We are not happy with her state primary, but it is not so bad that I can imagine we could consider this option. I would imagine the chance of (permanent) spaces coming up now between year 2 and year 6 would be quite slim?

Anyone else come across this?
Thank you

Do you really want to go to a school that would do that to a child? They clearly see your daughter as a year's fees and nothing else.

I can't imagine my son's school doing this, it seems unethical.

I would definitely swerve a school that was doing this.

Oh, I think that sounded harsh and I didn't mean it to be. I really really feel for you! What an appalling thing for them to do.

I know Sneakers... I am gobsmacked that this is something they would really do. Or whether in reality they would try to find some way of increasing class size (max 22 in prep year 3 onwards). We have otherwise been very keen on the school and have visited a number of times. I just cant understand why they would allow total year size for pre prep to be bigger than max year size for the prep school.

Casual places come up in my dc's private schools quite often, but they are usually quickly filled. There can be 8 or so people chasing one place.

If the school is warning you that you might have to give up your place at the end of year 2, I would take them at their word, as this is really unusual. More often, there is an extra intake at year 3, rather than a reduction in the size of the year group.

Is there no other option to you apart from your current school and this prep school?

Have you misread it? Does it not mean that if you go in in Y2 a then the place will continue into Y3 and beyond but if you wait until Y3 then you will be up against everyone else?

Are you sure the email has come only to you or to all parents expressing an interest in the school? ie they are addressing all intakes in a badly worded form?

colleger - fraid not. Max year size year 2 is 48 over 3 classes. Max year 3 is 44. Basically we have procrastinated too long and missed the boat:-(

Hand made tail, thank you. Nothing else local that appeals sadly.

That is not at all common. Most schools I know dd's included actually have more spaces in year 3 as they move from prep to pre-prep. It is a common joining point.

This year they have even added an extra Year 6 bulge class.

To be honest this would be a huge red flag for me. So I'd re-look at all other local options. Including, especially staying at her present school and extra tuition if you think she'll need it.

I'd expect there to be more spaces in yr 3 not less. Quite a few pre-preps finish at yr 2 or boys finish at yr 2 so moving at for yr 3 is pretty normal. I'd also not fancy paying fees for a class size of 22. Ds has 14 in his class with a maximum size of 18.

From your note it sounds as though they might already be over in year 2 ie their yield management hasn't worked out and they plan to try to oust someone. Utterly appalling behaviour, and you can't possibly take the place.
Managing these things is always a tricky game - most London schools are madly over subscribed for reception but the transient population means they are always vulnerable to sudden gaps later, but this is their problem - they aren't airlines and can't rely on bump people. We ended up one child too high for a term because school knew (but couldn't disclose who - you can imagine the speculation) someone was leaving at the end of term, which was a touch close to the wind and a bit cheeky, but not on this scale.
V shabby and to be avoided.

"Basically we have procrastinated too long and missed the boat:-( "

Think of it as a narrow escape. A school that treats children doesn't have their best interests - in both the pastoral and educational senses - at heart.

Or if you really like the school, talk to them, ask to be kept on the waiting list and say you'll wait until Year 3 (and subsequent years if necessary) to see what happens. Also, if you're financially a bit vulnerable, find out what extra expenses you'll incur whilst at the school - I'm guessing at a school like that they charge for everything they possibly can.

Good luck. :)

Seems very odd to publicise this but the Year2/3 transition is a common point for "managing out" difficult and SEN pupils or to leave for state junior schools so maybe they have that in mind to free up 4 places. Otherwise they may just run classes over the typical numbers until natural turnover brings them down.

If it is mixed it may be that they lose a number of boys at 7+ to prep schools, eg in London it is normal for boys who gain places at Westminster Under, Colet Court or Dulwich to leave, which then means a thinning out for self-standing prep schools.

That said I would not worry. It does sound as if they are trying to panic you. Places do come up regularly in most schools, bar the most selective.

Sounds like they are treating the pre-prep and prep as different schools. If you still like the school, there's nothing to be gained from getting a Y2 place now, but I'd tell them you still want to remain on the waiting list for the prep school (Y3 and up).

My children's school reduces the number from pre-prep to prep, I understood it was common to do this, as some children will not cope with the rigour of prep.
I seriously doubt it is done on 'last in, first out' though... entirely down to aptitude and ability I believe.
They whittle further at end of Y4 too.

Thanks everyone. We are going to keep things open but look around a bit as we are a bit worried that they were prepared to take children on this basis.
Park view - whilst they have good results, this is not a particularly academically selective school. The email clearly said last in first out, or I would be more inclined to consider taking the risk.