Lawyers- What you you do about uni and student debt?

[Multifacetediguana]

What is the best route to becoming a barrister? My friends ds wants to do a Oxbridge law degree after his 4y undergraduate degree as he seems to think this will be the best route to becoming a barrister (with a view to politics after that). Others have suggested he just does a 1 yr conversion course but he thinks this lacks the prestige required for the bar. Is this the case?

The Oxbridge degree would involve a massive amount of debt £9k plus £4k college fees plus accommodation and living costs x3 years. Added to his existing debt from his first degree he would end up owing nearly £100k. Is it worth it for a career in the bar?

Bump

Not a lawyer myself, but a friend of many - I cannot see the point in doing a second undergraduate degree. A good conversion course (i.e. City School of Law, BBP, College of Law) is all that is necessary - and is hard work, as it crams in pretty much what is covered in a u-grad law degree in a year.

Don't forget that after the conversion course (the cost of which escapes me), there is the BVC, which is very expensive in itself - and it is quite tough to pass, not to mention there being no guarantee of a pupillage afterwards.

It is a very tough career to get into, so spending needless amounts on another u-grad qualification which won't really add anything would be a bit barmy, IMO. And anyway, if you already have a u-grad degree, don't you get hit by the new Equal and Lower Qualifications thing where you have to pay the same fees as oversease students? ouch!

It is extremely hard to get a pupillage these days, only about 10% are successful.

I honestly don't think it would be worth doing a second degree tbh, far better to do the 1 year conversion course after he has his law degree. Apart from anything else, he'll be pretty old when he graduates, with a ridiculous amount of debt and still only a one in ten chance of getting a job.

It's extremely tough out there, I'm a lawyer and now frequently receive calls from chambers touting their counsell which was unheard of until a few years ago.

counsel

To be a barrister the most common way is - Oxbridge degree - not necessarily in law but should be a first (and for top sets, you would need one of the top firsts of the year). High grades in the vocational course - preferably distinction. I'd suggest that the DS looks at the websites of a few chambers to see the CVs of current barristers and what their academic credentials are.
Can't understand why anyone would suggest that he needs a second degree and that should be an Oxbridge law degree. One year conversion course followed by the vocational course is the nom for non law graduates.
As Mumblechum has already said, the chances of success - pupillage followed by tenancy are low and though some areas of the bar are thriving, others (criminal work particularly but also any work involving legal aid) are not.

DDs degree of choice runs for 6 years
she will have an eyewatering student loan account when she graduates
BUT
It's not like normal debt.
Its only repayable contingent on earnings
it does not count towards mortgage calculations
its really a graduate tax

choose the courses for their own merits, not for the fee debt

Provided the first degree is a very good grade and an academic, not a 'soft' subject, a law conversion course is no barrier to the bar. I was at college with one of the (now) top barristers in the country, who read History then did a one year conversion.

Husband is a barrister and I am solicitor. No need to do a second degree if he achieves well in his first degree and it is from a prestigious university. If it isn't then avoid the bar as it is vert competitive and hard to secure a tenancy unless you are top flight. The bvtc is very expensive so add the cost of that onto the gdl (conversion course) and you are looking at fees in the region of 20k. Sorry to sound so negative but so few make it. Good luck with whatever he decides.

I agree with hobnobs that you only get one bite of the cherry for a first degree at the 'reduced' rate; to do another first degree would be very expensive.
The OP mentions that the initial first degree is over four years, so this sounds like a Masters. Why not do a Bachelors at the other University and then apply for the Masters at Oxbridge? I understand that it is much easier to get into Oxbridge for postgrad than for undergrad. Then do the law conversion.

If the first degree is a robust one (or one which is considered as such) from a top flight university, then there is no need for, nor any gain to be had, from a second under graduate degree.

You can't get a student loan for a second undergraduate degree, or indeed for any postgraduate study.

Lots of people I went to uni with went into law from subjects like history, classic, various sciences...

Another one in support of the GDL conversion rather than a second degree, not least of all because I think the one-year conversion shows a lot more commercial nous than doing a second degree. Increasingly the legal world looks less to academic prestige and more towards good, commercial sense. A number of fellow students on my (recent) GDL course have gone on to the BVC. I haven't been in touch, though(have moved onto the LPC myself) so don't know how they have faired in terms of gaining pupillages. As others have said, competition is fierce.

Also, I would question why he thinks this is a good idea if he ultimately wants to go into politics? Why not simply go into politics?

Agree - GDL is more than acceptable and there is no point doing a second degree. Also, he would still have the option to be a solicitor when he comes to choosing between the LPC/BVA (that said, he would have missed the boat for applying for training contracts as a solicitor to start as soon as he finished law school).

Is he at Oxbridge now? If not, is the uni one of the older unis rated in the top 10 or so (LSE, Kings, UCL, Bristol, Durham)? If yes to one of those, is he online for a good first (NOT a 2:1)?

Honestly, if no to any of the above, the bar is a VERY hard ask, and unlikely to be successful.

He also needs to bear in mind that the early years of being a barrister, even if you go for one of the better chambers doing more commercial work (not criminal law etc - think chambers like Matrix or some of the well known tax and chancery chambers) AND is successful (honestly, so much competition), are very tough financially - many change to being a solicitor simply because they need a regular monthly income. Another thing with solicitors is that you get funding for the two years of law school if you get a training contract early enough. So if he were in his final year of his first degree, he might JUST be in time to apply for a TC this year and then get funding for law school. Akthough not without work experience and again, he'd need to be online for a first really.

Re politics, I am a lawyer (did you guess?!) but have a couple of close friends in politics. Is he already well involved in a political party? Has he been doing a lot of student politics and work experience? I am afraid the days of the route of barrister to politian automatically have long gone. Politics requires work experience etc these days, just like everything else.

I hate to be so negative (and your friend's DS might have all the above or more), but you need to bear in mind that there are literally 1000s of young people who DO have all of the right grades and experience etc, so without them, its an uphill battle.

He would be far better off finding a "godfather" who has already made to silk/the bench. [I'm not at all bitter 15 years on, honest!]