A vote of thanks to prh47bridge, Admissions and PanelMember

[Blu]

Who tirelessly give calm, generous, clear and sympathetic advice over a huge range of admissions questions.

For services to MN-ers in admissions despair, for busting some myths and patiently dismantling the conspiracy theories that arise in the face of gnomic admissions systems, for illuminating the small print and untangling the red tape, and for realistic advice - have a MN bouquet.

Ah, that's nice Blu, and very thoughtful. You are right, they are very knowledgable MNers.

Hear, hear.

Aye!

Agree with everything you said Blu

Aww, Blu, that's really kind of you. I am just girding my loins for the start of the appeals season, so it's nice to feel that I'm doing something worthwhile.

I am seeing the 3 of you work really hard in the aftermath of National Offer Day - your advice so clearly makes a difference to so many people.

Well done!

Actually, I don't think I've done anything yet after yesterday's offers, but no doubt I will ...

What bothers me is that the DirectGov website sends people who want to talk about school admissions over here, which strikes me as wrong for a number of reasons.

Thanks for the thanks. Always happy to help.

Hear hear

Panelmember, that is deeply inappropriate! (re the YouGov reccommendation).
Are MNHQ aware of that? Advising people to take advice from strangers on the internet . While you 3 are very highly clued up, I have seen quite serious misinformation given out by occasional poster, and a new poster arriving here from YouGov would have no idea who they were taking advice from - a hairy trucker, an confused co-parent or an expert

To the best of my recollection, Blu, I pointed it out to MNHQ last year and got no reply from them. Presumably, then, they see it as a validation of MN's good standing.

I still think it's wrong. In the first place, I share my knowledge and experience freely with other MNers, just as sometimes - when the boot is on the other foot and I'm under my usual MN name - they share other advice with me. Frankly, though, if people are going to join MN simply to get appeals advice then I might think about setting myself up as Appeals Advice R Us and charging as much as some of the other consultants, who in some cases (to judge by their disgruntled customers who end up on MN) know less about the whole thing than I and the other MN appeals regulars do! Secondly, it seems highly inappropriate for the Government website to rely on MN for all the reasons you identify, especially as there are a few posters who weigh into appeals threads with well-intentioned but factually wrong advice.

Oh I agree with the thanks - they're so calm and unjudgemental.

Should be publicly funded really .

Just bumping this to say a big thank you for all the help you've offered mumsnetters with the recent primary notifications.

Agree with gingeroots you all really should be publicly funded - you must have saved zillions of hours of LEA phone answering and prevented thousands of wasted infant-class size appeals from taking place!

The Good Schools Guide has a useful article on appeals and how to do them:
www.goodschoolsguide.co.uk/help-and-advice/choosing-a-school/school-admissions/108/appealing-for-a-school-place - no sub needed!

Crikey PanelMember I thought you were joking about DirectGov website sending people here!

Another example of the Big Society in action

No, Corlan, they've been doing it for at least a year! Admittedly, they send people over here to 'have a chat' rather than to 'get advice' but it still strikes me as somewhat presumptuous.

The suggestion of public funding is flattering but I'm not going to resign from the day job just yet!

Couldn't agree more, I've been given excellent advice by them . Filling in my forms right now for our appeal. Well, technically I'm MNing. I'm supposed to be filling in the forms

Yes thank you, I was a mess this time last year going through the appeal process and with No one to turn to for advice, yours was MUCH apprectiated! The hard work and worry paid off though because we won and now our ds loves his school with all his friends so I cant thank you enough :)

Crikey again! I haven't read the Good Schools Guide advice all the way through, but it starts with some very poor advice indeed, where it says

Like any other appeal you need to lobby like mad ? the head, the governors, the doctor, the local authority, your MP, the lollipop man ? whoever seems good to you.

This is nonsense.

Headteachers are expressly forbidden from supporting individual appeals, as (in all cases and especially where they attend the appeal, usually where the school is its own admissions authority) they have to represent the school's interest too. Likewise, the governing body can't take up the cudgels on one child's behalf - where the school is its own admissions authority, the governors oversee admissions but they do so on the basis of administering the school's oversubscription criteria, not lobbying or special pleading. MPs have no powers to order a school or LEA to offer a place. They might (say) send a letter asking the LEA to look again at whether an application has been correctly considered, but that is not the same thing. For community schools, the LEA is the admissions authority and it is always worth double-checking that there hasn't been any error in the decision not to offer a place (the application was placed in the right category, distance was correctly measured etc). Even so, the implication that the LEA might cave in and offer a place if parents push hard enough is simply wrong.

What bothers me is that if people follow this very poor advice, they might not be doing things that would be actually be of some help.

I've found a few other places where the advice in the Good Schools Guide is wrong or misleading.

It is correct that you can introduce new information on the day but I would strongly recommend against introducing new documentary evidence as it risks the appeal being adjourned to a later date.

It implies you may not even get a hearing when appealing for Reception, Y1 or Y2 which is wrong. You always get a hearing.

The summary of what happens in the hearing is incomplete and assumes it is always someone from the LA presenting the case to refuse admission. It also has the clerk outlining the procedures. That has actually been done by the chair in most appeals I have attended.

You can't lodge a group appeal. The admission authority may choose to organise the appeals as grouped individual appeals but that isn't quite the same.

It is THE Local Government Ombudsman, not YOUR LGO and, contrary to what is said in the Good Schools Guide, under some circumstances they will overturn the panel's decision and recommend that the child is admitted.

Public funding would be nice! My wife keeps telling me I should do this for a living . But, like PanelChair, I'm sticking to the day job.

So, prh47bridge, the schools may be good but the guide is mediocre.

::Prepares an invoice for SchoolsNightmare::