About to delve into the world of prep schools. Questions to ask?

[solongfebruary]

I'm about to visit a local prep school (a 'meet the head' visit not an open day) and I have a lot of questions but would apppreciate any more suggestions. There was a thread on MN years ago with some fantastic questions on it but I can't find it.

Also, if anyone had (as I do) a choice between a stand alone prep down the road from the highly regarded senior school and the senior school's feeder prep which one did people choose?

Regarding the second part of your question, I think you will get a feel as to which prep you prefer when you visit them.

It is usually easier to get into the Senior school from the feeder prep, as the children will be prepared for it's specific entrance requirements, but the stand-alone prep will (presumably) also send a large proportion of children there too, so I would go with your gut instincts on that one.

I'm not so much use with the general questions, as I had prepared loads, all of which were answered as we were shown around by the Head and several children. I had fairly "normal" requirements from the school - sports lessons every day, lots of extra-curricular activities, a strong focus on the academic basics, setting in most subjects etc. which I am sure you have already considered.

Thanks diabolo that is helpful.

Regarding the two, I'm interested in whether the independent prep will be more focused on the children, particularly their achievement as that is what they are 'producing' for want of a better word! The feeder prep might be less focused (good and bad) as parents have already shown their interest in the senior school by placing their child in the feeder school. But then there's the fact that most children will move up to the senior school at 13...

Oh, it's difficult. This is new territory for us even though I went to an embarrassingly awful independent. I didn't think we'd even consider it but here we are. I need to analyse all the options as I don't want to appear like a rabbit caught in headlights when we see all the facilities!

Ds is in a prep which is a feeder to a senior school and personally I find it limiting. There is an expectation that the boys will go on to the senior school. Usually about 80% do. A lot of parents seem to have chosen the prep on the basis that their child will not have to take an entrance exam to get into senior school (prep boys get priority and don't have to do an academic test for admission to senior school).

It also means that the prep is less focused on giving consideration to other school choices. We had a secondary school information evening this term. I went along expecting to receive info about the different choices. Instead it was a hard sell for the senior school with a comment at the end about there being other schools available. It rather put me off.

I think a feeder prep is fine if you are happy about where it feeds into but I would ask what percentage go from the prep to the senior school. At my ds's school, as well as pressure from the school there is also pressure from the pupils to go to the senior school with their friends. Personally I think that is rather claustrophobic as the school also has a nursery section. There is a likelihood that some boys will be together from 3 to 18. I'm not sure that is a good thing.

Some "feeder" preps don't even get all their boys into the senior school, so do ask even there about destination schools.

I would always recommend a stand alone prep i'm assuming you DC is entering at yr2/3 at the moment you are unlikely to know exactly which school will be suitable for your child or lets put it this way you might change your mind over the next couple of years. Secondly if you have your eye on schools with a 13+ entry i.e.most boarding schools choose one that not only goes to that age but also that is when the vast majority leave. If you're hoping for grammar schools entrance or 11+ entry choose one that only goes to 11. Thirdly if you have certain schools in mind the most obvious being the selective and often very over subscribed well known names e.g. Eton Win Coll or Harrow (I only know about boys schools) again choose a school with a year on year history of sending children there.
IME what ever questions you ask it's highly likely that the head will have a very polished credible and convincing answer. Remember in this day and age prep schools heads in particular are very good salesmen. I'd ask around locally or on MN once you've found one that you like. Although you can guarantee that even if you do this you will hear very mixed opinions. Most prep schools are relatively small and heads usually rather conservative so very much have a box that your child has to fit if you have a relatively well behaved and conventional child then you should be fine. If you have a DS then being sporty is also a good thing.

I would also add, look at the way the head interacts with the pupils etc. The DS's are in a stand alone prep with a good reputation for getting boys into a couple of the London day schools. One of the things I liked about this particular prep was that the head of the pre prep (mine started at YR) knew all the boys names and they were not afraid to chat to him instead they actively said hello to him. This ethos has carried on through the school (eldest now Y4)

I should have said it's for my DD to go into Y4. The senior school in question is highly regarded and that is where we want her to go. There are other independent schools around but not as close and we don't want her to board. We didn't think we wanted a private education for our children but are looking at it now as we've always felt she is very bright but think she is starting to slip. She lacks personal ambition (e.g. reading her sibling's ORT books rather than the 'proper' books she can easily read) and is happy to be a 'good' member in the class - mainly by keeping quiet and tidying the pencil pots! If this wasn't 2012 she would be your archetypal gal looking to a future with a nice husband and keeping a beautiful home! She needs to be actively encouraged and praised and given opportunities which I feel are lacking at her current school.

Having just paid for 6 yrs of prep ed maybe I've become cynical but there is no guarantee that a prep will sort out these problems: "lacks personal ambition" and "is happy to be a 'good' member in the class." Although of course the head will tell you he will.

Thanks happygardening. I'm hoping DD will sort it out for herself by being in a more proactive environment where there are greater opportunities and pushing oneself is rewarded rather than being good. I wasn't going to raise it with the head but am hoping to get a feel of whether she will thrive there.

You say you are cynical. Can I ask about your experiences of prep?

Do you want your child to move to senior at 11+ or 13+/CE ? If a school goes through to 13 ime it doesn't prepare 11+ candidates as well as a school where they all move on at that age. Ask about destination schools and the calibre of children they put forward for each and prepartion for entry requrieemtns ie sprt. art, academic, drama, music. You may find that they advise you as to which school to apply to and ask about the basis of this (pips, cats, internal exams) while an attached prep assumes that you will simply progress to their senior school unless they decide otherwise.

Also ask about the cohort she would join , profile and range . Some years groups are more academic, some more sporty, some badly behaved disruptive spirited . You may yet find your dd is too good and quiet to get noticed among the others. Look at the parents too, their attitude in the playground and car park may tell you a lot too !

Agree HG

I want her to move at 13+. I personally think that is a better age to change schools, by then the child is more independent, obviously older (!) but possibly more aware of their own interests and able to organise study, etc. I think those couple of years can be really helpful in finding your feet.

I don't think they would prepare them for other schools as I imagine most people's aim is to get the children into the senior school. I have friends with children at the senior school who love it and their children - teenage boys -love it too, which I think says a lot!

I will ask about how many get scholarships at 13+ and the % that move up - hoping to pick up where the others go if not on to the senior.

The senior school has 11+ and 13+ entry. So the prep goes to 13+ and then they move across, while new 11+ entrants are only admitted into the senior school, not the prep.

What are pips and cats?

Good suggestion re the cohort. And the car park, although I'm reminding myself not to be too judgemental. Our current school has an 'us and them' divide in the playground but some classes seem more inclusive than others.

Ask me about my experiences of prep school? Hmm i am a bit jaundiced in my views and may not represent many. Your child has to fit a box if its going to work more than he would in a senior school. He/she fits that box if he behaves in a way that the school want him/her too. I'm not talking about good/bad behaviour its more subtle than that and its not about being clever and good at exams etc or even wealthy its something else. If your child fits that box then you will have a very positive experience and maybe girls find it easier but if your child doesn't fit that box then IME everything is a struggle for both you and your DC.
Secondly your plans for senior school have to be in line with the vast majority because again IME prep school teachers are pretty unimaginative and are unable to cope with variation on a theme and the differentiation this may requires. (I sure lots of prep school teachers are going to deny this!)
Most parents are absolutely ghastly but then they and you would probably think I am too so I would ignore that advise, there will always be disruptive children and the cohort is often broad; there will be sporty, musical, incredibly clever and those that are thick as planks this is normal unless its uber selective. You cant control amy of these factors and I don't think you should be able to its the ethos that you need to discover and how it feels to you dont be swayed by glossy brochures websites etc. remember any one can write one of these and preps are masters of spin.
So good luck if you find a way of doing it do post on MN because many would like to know how to do it.

PIPS and CATs(Cognitive assessments) are tests used (like SATS which this school may or may not participate in, worth asking) to assess a child's academic "potential" and ideally measure against performance in class and exams and examine any discrepancies. imho there isn't much point doing them if you don't use the results effectively. You may find that extra curricular opportunities are targetted based on these.

Also check their claims -ie. are they really inclusive of all in sports teams, how do they ensure chidlren do not feel marginalised if they are always on the subs bench or in the lowest squad - do they listen to feedback from the parents and children alike or just hear what they want to?

By car park I mean the demeanour of those using it. Do they bother to follow the flow, use consideration , watch what their kids are up to while they chat, park where they are supposed to and even in between the lines occasionally or do they feel they "own" the place and can do what they damn well like ! I've noticed a definite shift in clientele at dc prep over past 6 years, increasingly like the latter - or may I'm just getting older and more jaded !

Oh, happygardening I'm sure you are lovely! You do sound very fed up with your experience though. I think DD is a box fitter so I'm not too concerned in that regard. I do have another DC who isn't (a boy!) so I think I know where you are coming from.

Thanks LIZS for the acronym explanations. Another of the (many) reasons I'm looking at the prep is because another of my DC (at the same school) didn't progress in english at all over a year (e.g. staying at a 3b) and when I pointed this out to his current teacher, he said he was sure he would pick up NEXT year - not his problem. When I pointed it out 2 weeks into the start of the new year to the next teacher, he was surprised and didn't know (and to my mind, didn't seem especially bothered). Of course, this isn't about him or the english - it's that lack of interest/concern/awareness that I want to remove DD from especially, as I said, she is happy to settle for average.

The car park politics made me laugh. I'm pretty sure most of the children arrive by bus so I won't get to see that. Phew!

It's not the car park politics you need to watch its the speachday/sports day politics even the thought of it makes me wince.