grades - can someone please explain how it works?

[ivykaty44]

When I go to parents eve the teachers sit and look at my dd's marks and give me oh she is at level 5 a or level 5 c and we want her to be at level 6 or she is above what we expect at level 4

Can anyone help as to what this means in % as I am never really sure of these levels and often resort to asking the teaching - is she doing ok in this subject could she do better and get answered in numbers and letters.

If I knew dd was getting 70% I would know where we where or if she was getting 50% then more work was needed - but I struggle to fathom this system?

on another note though - didn't you ask at primary if you were unsure about how the NC levels worked? It just seems odd that half way through year 8 and you are only now asking these questions

I asked in primary the first time round which was back in 1998 - I got an answer that I didn't understand - I asked again the following year. I waited then till secondary and asked again a couple of teachers what it all meant - and I got different answers again.

So I thought I would ask on here - and I think that

in some subjects they test to get a level - so it is equivalent of a %

In other subjects the teacher gives a level on what the work is like in class

the teachers sets a level according to the national average

the teacher sets a level according to what she expects for that child not the national average

I don't want to nod my head and pretend that I understand, but afraid if I ask I will be looked upon as silly that I don't understand.

I don't find it an easy marking system as I was brought up with grades A-F and test that had %, I am happy for change, but want to be able to ask and admit I don't get it without

The reason I am asking half way through year 8 is yet again I am going to be off to parents evening and I want to get to parents eve understanding this grades which seem to be moving targets

Definitely hard to give %s. I'm an RS teacher but I only use %s on the end of year exam. The levels they get during the year are based on an assessed piece of work and like cricketballs said it is about application and showing knowledge and understanding.

I took RE O' level and was marked in % all the way through I had to show knowledge and understanding as that was part of the 5 essays I had to write in the final exam So as you can see from my experience what you are saying worked in the reverse back then.

so if 7a is the highest you can get and the dc is set at achieving 5a in English and 6 in RE and 5b in Maths and they then achieves all those marks she is = full marks for them

and if another child is set 6 in everything and they achieve 5a in every subject they are not working to their full potential

is that correct?

Percentage marks are only as good as the test that was given though. If you gave your DD a maths test, say with ten questions of 2 +2, 3+7, etc, I am sure she would get 100% and an A, but that doesn't help you to know if she is progressing. I agree though, that it does give satisfaction to know exactly HOW you did at a given moment in time.

As I understand it the NC levels are set against national critieria so that all children are being measured against the same criteria. Some subjects, eg Maths are easy to test DC against the criteria. Because they are using class assessments, the levels should give a clearer picture of what is being consistently achieved

I would actually be asking the school why they aren't issuing you with your DDs expected targets in each subject - my DC school does this and I thought it was standard. DD Y7 received hers before half term. DS Y9 had his at the beginning of the year. We get a report or data update each term.

I think you are comparing apples and pears ivykaty44 levels just don't translate to percentages. Its not a question of full marks but rather that certain skills and knowledge is needed to move up through the levels. Its better to think of where your child starts in year 7 and look for 2 levels of progress over the three years of KS3 ie level 4 to 6, or 5 to 7.

I'm not up on current national curriculum, but bear in mind a percentage score doesn't of itself tell you how dc is doing, it depends on how hard the exam is. 50% on one test might be a great score, 85% on another average.

For instance, when I was doing my O levels I assumed I wasn't going to do particularly well in physics, till the mock exams, when I discovered the hardest paper we did a) was meant to have lower average scores than the other papers and b) counted for only 20% of our overall mark.

Okay, for science, what level 84% would give you depends on the test. As level 7 needs a higher level of thinking than level 6, which is higher than level 5. So for some tests they don't really test level 7 thinking, which is about thinking scientifically.
As an example, explaining a reaction in terms of the names of the chemicals could be level 5, eg. Hydrogen and oxygen become water. Level 6 would have chemical formulae; and level 7 would have balanced equations. Also at level 7 she might use proper scientific language, and be able to assess risk, and even suggest problems with the method.
The key thing is if teachers blind you with levels, ask them what it really means, should she do the subject for GCSE or A'level? How can she improve? And so on.

webwiz - with the greatest of respect - dd came home this afternoon with a level 6 due to an 85% mark in a test, so the apple is a pear. Moving away from % though as it isn't going to happen that way I have to accept that.

So if the dc starts year 7 with all level 5, at the end of year 9 they should be at all level 7

It still depends on the test though. It may well not have included level 7 question. If it had, she may, for example, have got only 70% but still have been a 6C because that was the format of the test.

Equally if the test had only included level 5 questions she could have had a 100% but still be only 5A.

But however you look at it, 6c halfway through Y8 is still good, so well done your DD.

And yes, in general a level 5 at the end of KS2 should be a level 7 at the end of KS3, and then be an A at GCSE. However DCs don't always follo patterns!

My DD came home with a sheet full of levels today. It has 'target' levels and 'expected' levels. The expected levels are what, based on current work, she should be getting at the end of ks3. whereas target was some sort of initial prediction. It doesn't actually say what level she's getting in the subject right now.

On the back of the sheet was a guide to what these end-of-ks3 levels might be expected to translate to (assuming same progress of course) at GCSE. There's a separate table for maths, MFL+ICT, and other subjects.

This seems quite useful and provides the sort of mapping gramercy (for one) might be looking for. I think this may have been generated by the school using their own past expected levels/gcse outcomes, so may not necessarily be applicable for other schools, so I don't know if it would be helpful for me to reproduce them here - but it might be worth asking your DCs school if they have any similar data.

Yes ivykaty44 but we aren't talking about O Level work. We are talking about KS3. In the end of unit assessments that we do they are only about 15-20 mins long and require them to write an extended answer to a question. I don't award them a mark for different points that they make - not appropriate at this level.

Yes, my GCSE students have to show knowledge and understanding, along with evaluation but it is marked in a totally different way even though it identifies the same skills.

Ds's school on reports give you a level for your child, and then the average level for the school. Well, I couldn't give a flying fig what the average level of the school is. I think that is quite irrelevant.

You are all making it sound hugely confusing!

In dd2 s school they do many tests- CATS MIDYS and all sorts. That gives then the level they are at now. The school report gives that level, where they are aiming for at the end of year and end of key stage.

It isn't rocket science, the girls understand it, and have a review meeting each term to look at progress and plan what they need to concentrate on.

It only becomes hugely confusing when you ( naturally, your the mum!) want to look beyond those levels to " where they are in the year" or how they compare to average.

What the school, and your dd need to know s that she is making progress at the right rate or faster.

grammercy - I suppose the average level for the school gives you some clue because there is data on how the school performs at GCSE - but you'd probably have to be quite fond of statistics to extract much meaning.

What I don't understand about levels is what they go up to. I read somewhere that maths goes to level 8 and all the rest to level 7. Does this mean in secondary school they are expected to progress quicker in maths?
Also is level 8a in maths and 7a in the rest equivalent to A grade at GCSE and so on down to 7c/6c being an F?

No richmal because levels only go up to the end of Year 9. GCSEs go above levels.

Richmal - yes, maths can go up to 8 and the others to 7 (except for some reason at DDs school they give grades up to 8 in some of the science tests too). I'm not sure why - maybe there's that bit more spread of ability in maths, maybe because its the sort of thing where an able child is able to do a maths GCSE question on topics they've covered totally accurately at 14 whereas other subjects there will be an expectation of more maturity and depth of knowledge in an answer.

Also is level 8a in maths and 7a in the rest equivalent to A grade at GCSE and so on down to 7c/6c being an F?
Not exactly. The level at the end of yr9 may be used as a predictor of the expected GCSE grade. The exact prediction will probably vary between schools. At DDs it goes:
Maths: 8(any) A*, 7a A, 7b A/B 7c B/C
MFL and ICT: 7(any) A* , 6ab A, 6c A/B, 5a B/C
All others: 7a+ A*, 7b A 7c A/B 6(any) B/C

Thank you, that makes sense now.

hi

My daughterwill be coming to the end of year 7 when they break up and the the moment her maths grade is a 4a her English a 5b and science 5b is this good? What would her predicted grades be or expected to be I should say for the end of year 9. Any information would be most grateful. X

This is a very old thread

Levels don't actually exist anymore and bear no relation to the current national curriculum

Some schools still use them but they are essentially now made up
And interpreted differently by the different schools that still use them

Is it an academy by any chance?

Yes it is. How did you guess ☺

I'm guessing as it must only be academy's that still use them is that correct? .

All schools can choose how they assess and track progress

In my local area, only academies are using levels as they don't have to follow the national curriculum

Levels don't translate to the new curriculum so most schools have a system of working towards, at or above age expectations

So how does this help me then in the meantime time to understand how well or not my child is doing or am I being thick.