"Depth of Writing" Yr 6 DD

[Sonnet]

I would welcome your thoughts and advice please.

I have been told by my DD's english teacher that she is not doing as well as expected. In particular she is lacking a "Depth" in her written work.

His advice is to read more whic we are, of course, doing.

Can any wise mumsnetters offer me any other advice please?

TIA

What's she like when she talks to you?

Could she describe something 'in depth'?

Can she tell you about her day to a good level of detail?

Can she retell a story well? (Even a classic fairy tale.)

I would work on improving her vocab and structure etc through speech.

Is she currently working at a level 3?

Thank you IndigoBell.
Yes she is working at a level 3. Your post has really made me think...
No she cannot describe very well in depth - when she is trying to tell you about her day I often have to stop her and ask her to start again "From the beginning". She lacks detail when explaining things to us so that is of course going to be reflected in her writing. She could retell a tale but a level of detail would be missing.

How can i help her thorugh speech?

Aiming For - Level 4 Writing

In fact I am now worried.

Her reading dosn't seem to have progressed since year 4 and her english is slipping backwards.

Her art of expressing herself seems to have got worse...

Could this be part of a bigger problem?

x-post.

I don't know how to help her through speech - except lots of talking to her.

But, it stands to reason, if she can't talk well she's unlikely to be able to write well :)

Also, you can practice 'speaking' much easier (and with less stress) than practising writing.

:(

It could be part of a problem often labelled as 'dyslexia'.

I think it's unlikely to be anything more serious than that......

Has she really got worse? Or just not improved as much as you would expect?

If you google 'talk for writing' you'll get quite a lot of ideas.

Talk for writing

thank you IndigoBell . I have ordered this and will start to work through it with her.

X posts..

Maybe she has just levelled out - in Yr 3 and 4 she was way ahead reading and the types of books she was reading then anre the types of books she is reading now.

You are spot on though - thanks. If she cannot speak very well then she cannot write very well.

It is an efforet to get her to read - she doesn't enjoy reading like my other DC. I have posted on here before.

She also takes LAMDA speech and drama lessons - so no excuse at all.

I don't want to jump to any conclusions - I think I will speak to her teacher some more and echo my concerns.

Thanks for the link.

A lot of people don't like reading because they have very mild vision problems (eye tracking), which mean that reading is uncomfortable for them.

Have you got a kindle? You might well find that she likes reading a kindle better than a book, because it is far easier on your eyesight.

(You can also use the kindle app on any tablet or iPad)

You can also of course try audio books.

Yes we have got a kindle - funnily enough she did use it a lot at first but now says she likes "proper books" - I am deciphering that, after talking to her teacher, she prefers to choose "teenage style" books from the school library with her friends...

She has had her eyes tested (last time in October) and has glassses for a mild problem.

Audio books - a good idea - we stopped due to lack of time. Will have to sort that!

Have you tried 'mind maps'. It may help her get her thoughts organised before she starts writing and highlight areas where she needs more detail. Eg. Each character in her story needs to be described. My DS is dyspraxic mind maps were recommended for him.

I would say with my dd audio books and being read to ,including poetry, are key. Thesaurus and this book helped. She gets' first news ' every week which she always reads and I've found good book recommendations by searching on here.We did some writing (where I could persuade her) then looked at ways to improve each sentence or the overall plot or structure.
We also watch films such as adaptations of Austen,Dickens,Shakespeare together and talk about the story together.
Would mind mapping help with planning? This website which was recommended on here by mrz is good for general information and ideas for ks2.
I found going over basic grammar and punctuation really helped my dd, as once she was more secure in this her writing became easier for her. Too many things to think about :)

What!!!! Depth of writing, what a crock. Spelling, reading and writing is ALL you need to worry about at that age.

numbertaker the OP's daughter is in Year 6 - age 10-11. Did you mis-read it as age 6?

Yotty - what a great idea - thanks! I think that may really help.

concretefeet - wow thanks for those links and pointers! yes so many thinks to think about.

I will post back in a few weeks and let you know what seems to be working.

Really appreciate your responses.

You could try some guided writing with her. Pick a title and get her to think up a basic idea. Now ask questions about it, which you are sneakily building into a sequence, and get her to write down her answers.

E.g. The Storm.

Ask: Did the storm begin deep at night when everyone slept or in the early hours of the morning - or was it a sudden storm on a bright afternoon, when everyone was out and about?

By giving lots of detail in your leading question, you're encouraging her to add detail in her answer.
Then ask: who noticed it first? What did he look like? What was he doing when he noticed it? What made him realise it was coming?

And so on, until a story or essay is formed.

Once she reads back her answers, she'll notice that the depth of detail has really made her story work. Do that several times - between half a dozen and a dozen, until she's comfortable setting up the questions to herself. Don't worry about directing her too much. Once she gets the hang of it you can let go.