MY reception 4+ assessment experience

[kissafrog]

I have recently had my daughter entered for 4+ assessment and she did manage to get into her first choice. I am pleased for her as I believe it is the right school for her. However I did not enjoy the whole experience of prep school assessment. In fact I found a lot of the parents extremey annoying at the assessement at one particular school in SW15 (featured recently at sunday times article for being competitive). I hope I am not one of them and it did make me evaluate my choice for going for schools that require assessment. Assessment per se is nothing wrong. You have too many kids and you cannot take everyone so in theory I am okay with that. I also blame myself for being too disorganised and not putting my daughter's name down for the non selective schools (some require you to put the name down straight after birth - how absurb is that?) So in the end I have little choice but to go for selective school.

Going back to my experience....this is a popular school. The minute I walked in with my DD i was shocked at the sheer size and scale of the interview. The whole assessment runs like a military operation with around 60 kids ( 3 long list of 20 names on each) with at least 3 batches overlapping during the one to one an half hour session with many kids and 50 odd parents waiting at the sports hall. It is intimidating and I overheard the following conversations....one parent was talking to another parent:

conversation one:
parent C: I don't really like this school. it's so cruel to have my daughter being assessed.
parent D: oh isn't it just.
parent C: I got a space for her at Hurlingham and The Study already.
parent D: you mean you got a place already?
parent C: yes and i paid two deposits already. Well I prefer Hurlingham anyway as I have a little boy too so they can go to school together.
parent D: then why are you here if you don't like the school and you think it's cruel
parent C peechless.

conversation two:
parent A: where else have your applied?
parent B: I have applied Putney High, Wimbledon High, Notting Hill and Ealing, South Kensington Falkner House, Kensington Prep, North London Collegiate and Francis Holland (and a few schools I have not heard of....)
parent A: Wow that's a lot of schools where do you live?
Parent B: We are going to live where the school is going to be...
parent A: I wonder what they test 4 year olds?
parent B: Oh I know they test the kids to see if they can write their names, count and .....
parent A: writing their name...my daughter cannot write her name.....oh my god oh my god

by this time II had to move away as it frightened and annoyed me...this last parent had done all the research and coached his DD on everything and he is a MAN!! he blurted out so much knowledge about school assessment he could write a book....I had to confess this is the first time I realise how incredibly unattractive a man becomes when he is so au fait with assessment techniques....and all of a sudden I think my DH is far more attractive as he is totally ignorant of which school is the best.

anyway the point I want to make is there are a lot of aspirational pushy middle class parents who like you and me want the best for their kids. I cannot help but questionning my own motives for applying for this school. Do I just want my DD to go because this school is famous for academic results so I can show off or do I genuinely like this school. I have to be honest after the way I see the assessement being organised which is convenient for the school ie. big operation over a few days and kids in kids out rather than a small cosy environment less intimidating for kids of 4 year old. My answer is NO this is not my ideal school.

I ask myself AM I AS UNATTRACTIVE AS SOME OF THESE OTT PARENTS. god forbid I become like them - wanting to grab as many offers as they can, putting deposits down for more than one school clogging the system so others cannot get the space (this I totally despise as there are people out there who genuinely has no offer or place for their children and therefore it is immoral to hold on to more than one offers.) I was shocked to find out how many people hold onto more than one offers. I was told one parent had paid for five deposits and will decide in the summer. How ridiculous!

I left the assessment with my DD feeling slightly sorry for her as she also did not enjoy the experience (she was yelling and refused to go in so it won't surprise any of you she did not get in to this particular school and I am not sorry one bit) In fact I am rather annoyed with myself for putting her through it and feeling relieved. I thougt to myself I must try hard not to turn into a career mum, a helicopter mum, a mum who is so ambitious for her kid that she loses all sense of commonsense, a mum who tries to relive her childhood through her kid and make her kid achieve everything she did not .....Education is important but it is not just down to the school, how we bring them up, what values we bring them up are just as important. First and foremost I want my DD to be happy. For goodness sake it's only reception class....when was the last time someone asked you where did you go to primary school or worse still reception?

OP, I seriously think you should move out of London.

Within commuting distance there are nice schools which you don't have to compete to get into.

I think what seeker means (and I maybe wrong) is that that ultimately parents who figure out what the school is looking for, and make sure the child can demonstrate these things (ie writing own name) are more likely to be offered a place than parents who haven't bothered to find out and haven't ensured little Johnny can write own name, count up to twenty, add two and two and build a figure of eight with a Brio train track.

So yes, effectively it's the parents who are being tested, not the children.

Decent schools should be able to read between the lines, though. Hopefully.

They are looking for children who won't be any sort of problem, and parents who are "the right type". They don't want to have to deal with special needs, or parents who don't pay the fees.

And this is in your vast experience of 4+ assessments Seeker? Am surprised you were interested in a place, given your views on private education. Were you asked to take bank statements along in order for them to ascertain whether you were able to pay the fees? Or are you just making it up as you go along again?

I have a wide and varied circle of friends, Joanna, it may surprise you to know- and the outsider often has the best view of the game!

Thank you Joannapancake and Lynette Scavo. I also happen to disagree with seeker. It is nonsense. My DD got accepted but we are very ordinary family. I know kids who were accepted at private and went on to do very well at very good prep school and their parents are very simple folks who had to remortgage the house to pay for the fees. Ultimately it's a lot of luck involved. These are 4 year old kids we are not talking about GCSE or 11+ when the kids actually have to take a proper exam. So it's crazy we all take it so seriously. We need a sense of humor and a bit of perspectives.

Lynette I agree with you I will consider moving out of London if not for DH job.

In my oringinal post I am merely reflecting and I was surprised how much I did not enjoy the experience because my DD is very shy by nature and slow to warm up. So IMO I should have just go for non selective school. We are lucky she got a place despite a rough start at the assessment. And we are very luck to get a place. And yes I want to remain a caring nurturing mother but definitely not a helicopter mum and certainly not want to play the system as some commented before. I chose private because the schools near where we live fail even the Ofsted assessment and had warning for the below national standard and the others require either COE or catholic but our DD is not baptised and we don't go to church so we have very little choice. Anyway If I had to do it again I would go for non selective. There is such a fine line between wanting the best for your kid and being overly ambitious and pushy. I am sure there will be times in the future I will overstep the mark but I sincerely hope those will be rare occasions.

I've been through a similar thought process and enjoyed your post. That said, the selective school at which my DS has been offered a place is by all accounts very nurturing once you are there, and the assessment day wasn't quite as bad as the one you describe. But it still has the potential to bring out the worst in parents, which is why I will be going back to work as soon as he starts!

All humour around the process is to be warmly welcomed as far as I'm concerned!

The schools couldn't care less about the parents as far as I can tell. They just want the children who are best suited to that school, usually the brightest. And yes, those parents who know the systems can give their kids a boost by knowing what to do, but I think that rarely works these days. The schools assessments I know of,have become to cleverly worked out and wide reaching across a number of areas. I think it's aways going to be a bit hard to see what a child's potential is at 3 and 4, but they have to use some benchmark.
The whole process is quite hilarious though and I agree with the OP you have to find the humour in it, some parents take it so seriously. I have thought for a while, it would make a great documentary/reality show!!!

There is a prep school in north london that is rumoured to highly favour oxbridge educated parents, with a high-achieving father and a mother who's given up her career to look after the children. Mothers make sure that they go to the interview in Boden mufti even if they're going onto work as they don't want the suit to give away the fact that they might not be continually on had to nurture their child. That's definitely choosing the parents... I suspect it's not a bad way of guessing future academic success, but you might argue that these boys might do well anywhere in the circumstances. (and obv not a foolproof way of predicting it but they can always ease out the ones who don't conform).

Ooh Boden outfit should put them off surely !? ;)
I only speak of those I know ! North London is a whole other world to me!

I dunno - I think prep schools can't really tell much can they?

Sure, they can ask what my educational status is, but that won't tell 'em that my DC aren't as thick as mince will it?

And at 3, they wouldn't be able to tell if a child were going to develop any number of SEN. Especially not from the half an hgur they've got them for.

As for fees, well there is no way of knowing if we can sustain them. The form only asks what you do for a living. So I put writer. What does that tell 'em? I might be a best seller, or I might have had one book self published and sold 14 copies. That's why they ask for such big deposits, to ensure they don't end up out of pocket if you default on the fees.

I just reackon all the hoo-ha is a waste of time and deep down the schools know it.

By secondary level, is a completely different case. The schools can select quite strigently and ensure that by and large they get the right DC for them.

I don't know anything about private schools, so can't comment there.

But the comment about men - wtf? Are you planning to teach your daughter that it is somehow good for a man to not know anything about his child's education? That is it attractive?

Tbh, I would find the whole thing annoying, but a man being involved in this kind of thing is no more annoying than a woman. What an utterly bizarre thing to say. Worrying, as well, given that you have a child who you are presumably passing this message on to.

Here's a story about assessing parents. When I was looking for a school for DD I phoned one school to ask for their prospectus. They asked a number of questions before they would agree to send it out including wanting to know what schools and universities DP and I went to. When I asked why they wanted to know this they said it would help them establish "whether your dd would fit in with the social profile at out school". We did not apply - if that was the attitude of the admissions secretary what on earth were they teaching them in the classroom? (as it happens DP went to a well known independent followed by Oxford though I let the side down with a run of the mill comprehensive followed by a Russell group university)

OMG senseofentitlement where is your sense of humour? Crikey.
a) It is a joke
b) are you parent B because if you are sorry that chap is very unattractive close-up when he blurted out all these assessment techniques.. he is not involved alright but more showing off and just being generally competitive. Big difference.
c) thank you for worrying about my child she is in good hands. There is no danger of her hating men in our family rather the contrary.
d) My DH is involved but he is not crazy! and he would not have attacked for saying what I said here.
d) you need to lighten up with your "maninism" haha
ALL THE ABOVE is a joke. Please don't send me another message to tell me off again! and don't say wtf please very bad manner man or woman otherwise

It is really an eyeopener how people read a message and take things out of context!

minceorotherwise - absolutely deserved a documentary....

Hi all,

I want to send my little dd to Haberdashes, St Helens or NLCS and wanted to know which nurseries have the best hit rate with them.

I know that Broadhurst in Hampstead seems to be getting loads of kids in, but wanted to hear opinions from other mums, none of the schools will tell me which nurseries they accept most kids from and having looked at other postings it isnt entirely clear.

Seems like a good time of year to ask people as the results for NLCS and Habs are out now....so if your dd got in please tell me which nursery you sent her to and what your experience was like.

The ones I am looking at are:
Broadhurst - Hampstead
Rosewood - Pinner
Rexton House - Elstree
Whizz Kids - Mill Hill
Haydon Hall Nursery - Pinner
Stanmore Montessori

Would be interested in hearing about your experiences at these nurseries, how successful you were at assessments and how you attribute this success (or failure) to the nursery, what they did with your child, what they could have done or should have done. Good points about the nursery, bad points about the nursery.

My DDwent to Broadhurst and I pulled her out- nasty pressured atmosphere and teachers terrified of the principal who is used to be the head but now have a new head who is as clueless and as thick as they come- basically a puppet ( gets today bossed around by then principal)
Know a few other people who took their kids out as Broadhurst isprepping kids for "what they aren't developmentally ready for" ( quote from an educational consultant who's lovely and highly regarded) its a very structured nursery with small classrooms or children so young and very little true free play- it's all sit and listen and play with this my that as its puzzle time etc.... I just felt it was looking at children like they were pieces of meat to see how many notches they can get with the super competitor schools and if they weren't up to scratch they would be given less attention and focus was alwas on the ones that are lost likely to make it. A friend often decided in advance that she will send her DS to a Jon selective school after Broadhurst and as soon as thu heard this she felt her DS was less of a priority. It's a personal choice but I know it's a certain type of nursery so don't be deluded into thinking its nurturing, it's not, only aim is to get your child Into the competitive school but I suppose that might work for some people. Pm me if you like

I can't believe that your post is being taken so, so seriously OP.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading it and thought it was worthy of the Sunday papers!

It was a fun, informative view for goodness sake, to which the op questioned herself. It surely doesn't need dissecting!

I think we all know the whole system is flawed in many ways. Take it for what it was.

Thanks op.

Just had to comment as I have a child at Broadhurst nursery and I am extremely happy with the nursery.
The principal and head mistress and my DS's teachers have always been lovely and are very helpful and supportive. My DS loves the school, and even though they are taught things (which they seem to enjoy btw!) it is still very nurturing. He always gets hugs and cuddles and is very affectionate with his teachers.
There is also a fair amount of free play - they go out in the garden and choose their activities in the classroom and then there is also some structured learning which as mentioned above, they all seem to really enjoy.
berrymummy - I think you need to keep in mind that most of the parents at the school want their children to continue on to certain prep schools and hence there is a lot of pressure from the parents - Not the staff. I think this is common in a lot of nurseries and you just have to ignore all of the stress and hype that comes from the other parents getting all competitive and stressed about the assessments.