Could you please explain the British Education system to me? [smiles pleadingly]

[Sannebanana]

OK, so I know it really is far too early for me to be posting in here given that DD isn't born yet, but hear me out!

For those of you who don't know I'm in a bit of a situation at the moment in terms of my marriage, I've just started the divorce process. I'm also pregnant with DD1 which is going to make it more complicated, especially as neither DH nor me are British citizens. My solicitor has recommended I start thinking now about where DD and I are going to live in the long term, whether I want to go home or stay in the UK, and one of the things which is going to affect that is education. I went to 6th form college here but that was almost 10 years ago, and I have no other experience of how schools, exams, applying for places etc work over here. So would anyone be able to give me a brief overview of the British School System for the completely clueless? I am going to go and do some googling later but first hand experience would be good too. :)

Also, if there is anyone out there with experience of both the British and South African systems who could tell me how the 2 compare, that would be great. I know it's a long shot!

Thanks.

Brief :)

You have a choice of state schools which are free, or independent schools which cost a fortune.

For Indep there are loads and loads of different ages and options.

State schools:

• Your child starts reception in the September when they are 4 (very different to SA)
• Then in most parts of England at 11 they transfer to a secondary school.

Some areas have slightly different ages for transferring.

There are a very few Grammar School areas (notably Kent and Bucks). If you live in a Grammar School area you have to be really on the ball :) They have a test your child sits when they're 10 ( the 11+) which determines which school they go to. Kids who pass test go to grammar school, others go to comprehensive.

Obv the comprehensive schools in those areas suffer from having no bright kids in them........

No other state schools are allowed to select on ability.

Brilliant bits of current UK system:

• Differentiation. In the UK they almost never put a child up or down a year. Instead the teacher is expected to teach all the kids in the class at they're level.

There will normally be at least a 4 year spread in ability ranges, and the teacher just deals with all of it. ie gives the kids who are ahead harder work than the kids who are behind.

When it works well it is truly excellent. When it doesn't work so well, I think it's still better than countries which teach everyone the same thing at the same time.

So whether your kid turns out to be ahead or behind or both (in different subjects :) ) Chances are they'll find school is right for them.

• SEN (Special Education Needs) - if your child turns out to have any kind of SEN, even something as common as dyslexia, the UK's a fairly good place to be.

• Begining Reading Teaching - schools are getting better and better at teaching reading here. I don't know how it's done in SA, but here everyone's moving to Phonics, and the teaching is getting better and better.

Bad bits

• In some schools not a lot of emphasis on handwriting :)
• Curriculum is very 'broad' (ie they teach an awful lot) - sometimes it feels at the expense of the basics.

I've got 3 children at primary school, all with very different needs, all with some kind of SEN, and also being very clever in some areas - and I'm very glad we're here in the UK. I don't think any other country would have done a better job :)

(Which is not to say I'm completely happy :) )

Thank you so much, that's really helpful :)

oh, and the other unusual thing about English schools is that they are all Christian - even the ones that you think aren't :)

ie all schools are meant to pray every day.

Probably also worth pointing out that in terms of applying to primary schools

• Your child is eligible for school in September if they have turned 4 at any time between the previous September 1st and 31st August of that year (ie the children who start school on 1st September can be aged anything between 5 on that day, and 4 the previous day
• You apply in c. January for a place in the September of that year.
• Only 30 children are allowed in each Reception class. Schools may have 1, 2, sometimes 3 and occasionally more of these classes. If the number of applicants for places is greater than the number of places in Reception, then 'oversubscription criteria' come into play to sort out who gets a place and who doesn't.
• It is the Education Authority, not the school, wwho applies these rules.
• Different schools give different priorities for certain applicants. Even where a school is a community school, the rules will be different in different areas of the country.
• Priority is always given to 'looked after' (fostered / in a children's home) children and to children with a Statement of SEN (note - not 'with SEN - a Statement is necessary) naming that school.
• Priority may be given to siblings of existing pupils; children of a particular faith; children who were baptised in a particular church or whose families attend that church regularly, often over a period of years; those who live in a apecific catchment area.
• If there are too many children who meet a given criteria, then almost all areas use 'distance from the school' as a tie-breaker, with the closest applicants gaining places.

In many areas of the country, especially the more rural, none of the above is particularly relevant. You apply to the local school, there are enough places, you get in. In some more urban areas, especially cities with a mix of 'desirable' and 'less desirable' areas and schools, understanding the application rules and regulations for your preferred school a couple of years in advance can be very handy!

Here is my experience of the RSA system compared to the British system. I have family in Cape Town with two cousins at a state school, one at Bishops and friends at Hilton. We looked seriously at Hilton and even visited but DS health has meant that it would be best for him to stay in the UK.

The RSA school system is two years behind England, even the private schools - the state schools are further behind. Virtually every white family sends their child to private school. These vary substantially in cost and quality. In the UK you do not need to send your child to private school so financially you need to think about it.

Manners, discipline, Christian ethos are far stronger in RSA schools. Sport is second to none as is the outdoor lifestyle. My gut feeling would be to live where you have the most support, whether that be financially or from friends and family. If possible, assuming your partner is not abusive, the best thing for your child is not where s/he is educated but that S/he has a relationship with her father. If he remains in the UK and you are happy here then it would be best to stay. I wouldn't follow him to another country though.

You have a choice of state schools which are free, or independent schools which cost a fortune.

When I first read that, I misinterpreted it so in case OP does the same thing.
You have a choice between (free) state or (expensive) independent schools. You do not have a choice of state schools: it is them that choose you, not you that chooses them (you are allowed to 'express a preference' but the LEA's wishes are paramount). However, you can affect their choice by knowing how the rules work and making plans accordingly. For most schools, the important thing is where you live (the school's catchment area). In an ideal world you would live somewhere that is catchment for good primary and secondary schools. These places are, of course, more expensive to buy/rent in.

You are allowed to 'express a preference' but the LEA's wishes are paramount

That is a bit of a simplification to say the least. The LA (local authority) cannot simply ignore your preferences and allocate schools the way they see fit.

Every school has an admission number, sometimes referred to as PAN (Published Admission Number). This is the maximum number of pupils who will be admitted to year. If the number of pupils naming the school as a preference is less than the admission number they will all be admitted. However, if there aren't enough places at the school for all the applicants the school's admission criteria are used to decide who gets in. In general all the community schools within an LA will have the same admission criteria but other types of school (faith schools, foundation schools, academies and free schools) can set their own criteria. The admission criteria will specify who gets priority for admission and what tie breaker is used to determine who gets a place between two applicants of equal priority. Distance from the school is the most common tie breaker but it isn't used universally.

Most people get a place at one of their preferences and a high proportion get their first preference. However, there are always some people every year who don't get a place at any of their preferences. The LA must then allocate a place elsewhere. This will usually be at the nearest school with places available, but that may be some distance from home. It is therefore important to use your preferences sensibly and include at least one school where you have a very high chance of getting in.

The LA co-ordinates the whole admissions process. You apply to them for places. You will be able to name at least three preferences - some LAs allow more than this. You will only receive one offer from the LA which will be at your highest preference where there was a place available. So if there were places available for your child at your first and third preferences you will only be offered your first preference.

English schools are all Christian

Just to clarify that remark, a significant proportion of state schools are church schools, usually CofE or RC. There are also some schools of non-Christian faiths, although these are comparatively rare.

All schools are required to have a daily act of collective worship. For non-faith schools this must be wholly or mainly of a broadly Christian character. Faith schools can do whatever they want in their worship. In practise many schools, including faith schools, ignore the requirement for a daily act of worship completely. Even when there is some form of assembly it frequently does not include any worship and has little or no Christian content.

Religious Education forms part of the compulsory syllabus for children up to the age of 16. RE in non-faith schools is supposed to reflect the fact that religious traditions in the UK are generally Christian but should also take account of the other major religions. Faith schools can set their own syllabus for RE which can include more or less about Christianity than non-faith schools. A significant proportion of schools ignore the requirement to teach RE completely.

Some church schools are not very religious. Some non-faith schools are very religious. Parents have the right to withdraw their child from RE and/or collective worship, although very few parents exercise this right.

I dont envy you your situation. I can see why your lawyer is suggesting that you decide where you will want to live and bring up your child. I would have thought that as well as education, potential employment and family and other support will be important factors.

If you decide to stay in the UK, a lot will depend on how much money you have. There is a large expatriate community in Central London, for whom money is little object, attracted by good quality, indeed world-class, private schools. If you dont have much money and are looking at state education a lot depends on where you live. This will depend in part on what you do for a living so where you need to be based and what you can afford to spend on housing. Being in the catchment of a good school raises house prices and rents, though obviously some parts of the country, with good schools, are cheaper than others.

Good luck with the remainder of your pregnancy and getting through the trauma of divorce. It sounds like a very worrying time.

Thanks everyone :) So If my DD is born in February this year, she will start school in September 2016? Just checking I've got this right!

Colleger- thanks, that's really helpful. It's all too complicated to go into here but DD is most likely not going to have a relationship with her father, so that isn't an issue.

Needmoresleep- yep, there are quite a few factors I'm looking into at the moment, this is just one of them :)

Moving onto GCSEs, they are taken in the main subjects the year before 6th form college, is that right?

Also worth checking whether she would be the oldest or youngest in each country. A Feb birthday here is about half way through the year, in Scotland she would be the youngest.

One thing I would say is that its easier to afford to travel to RSA on a holiday even without a massive income but not the other way around. One of my families in Cape Town are not well off and they would never be able to afford to move to the UK or even holiday here. It costs me less to travel there than it would for them because of the Rand.

I'm in London, so she'd be about in the middle I think. The cutoff point in South Africa is the end of June to start in January the following year, so either way in the middle age-wise.

Sanne - not the most helpful post but the one thing that really makes me happy to be in Australia as opposed to the UK is that I don't have to fret about getting DS into a school that is nearest to us and is decent - something that seems to be quite an issue in the more populated areas of the UK! But it's only a minor consideration against the overall quality of the education system, I suppose - I'm just jolly glad that DS can go to the local school here purely because he is in the catchment area - no argument (and it's a very good primary school, phew!)

Yes, GCSEs are taken in Y11 when the child is 16.

Thumbwitch - you are reading too much Mumsnet. Where I live if you apply on time (eg. don't move into the area) you will get into the local school, however people can also choose to send their child to another school. Then they may get that school, or may not, if they list it they will still get their local school.
My DC go to the local school for primary; luckily I got the eldest into not the local school but we thought better school and the younger ones are following. But actually where I live there are few if any bad schools, and those that have been put into special measures (in the last 15 years) have all been turned around, and tend to be highly sought after.

The difference compared to the US system which I understand (I don't know the Aussie one) is that in the UK if you don't like your local school (for whatever reason) you can at least try to send your child somewhere else.

Well yes and no mummytime - where I lived in the UK there were plenty of issues around getting into the better schools - my nearest one wasn't a good one and trying to get into the further away better ones would have been hard.

You can still send your child elsewhere here if you don't like the local one; or at least try to, so long as they are not full - but most of them are not full so it's rarely an issue (except some of the more exclusive private church schools - the nearest one of those to us is very highly sought after and usually full)

Lots of axe grinding going on in these answers!

The state education system in England is divided into Key Stages.

Your child can enter the system aged 3 (if you wish) with a free nursery place for half a day in a nursery attached to a school, or else you get the equivalent time / discount towrads a place in a private daycare nursery. None of this is compulsory, it is called the Early Years / Foundation Stage.

Your child enters Reception in Primary School at 4 - this year is still 'Foundation stage' and not compulsory, either, but it is a learning-thorugh-play stage and most people take it up as you might not get a place in Yr1 if you don't!

KS1 starts in Yr1 when children are 5
KS2 starts in Yr 3-6.

Most primary schools include Foundation, and KS1 & 2 - some are 'infants' (KS1) or Junior (KS2) but will then most likely be linked.

Secondary school starts in KS3 - the first 3 years of secondary ed, leading to GCSE choices, KS4 cover the two GCSE years.

Some counties have 'middle schools' which bridge KS 2 and 3.

You apply through your local council. You can give your preferences as to the school you would like best , but need to be realistic against the admission criteria, which will usually come down to those living closest to the school having priority. You may have a wider range of choices if you meet the faith criteria to attend a CoE or Catholic school.

All state funded schools follow the National Curriculum.

helpful link