five year old reading problems

[WhoKnew2010]

I'm just wondering whether anyone can give me any advice.

DD2 who is 5.7, is really struggling at school. She has a wonderful, v. experienced teacher who also doesn't know what to do.

We thought we'd cracked the alphabet over Christmas but she just forgets some of the letters as soon as we think she's learned them (especially v and y). I've just spent two sets of 20 minutes trying to teach her 'they' and 'away' and she just doesn't have the faintest idea. It's as though it's a foreign language to her and she just can't retain it. Orally she's bright enough and while flightly can engage with a favourite activity/film if she wants to. She has absolutely no interest in reading, which doesn't help.

Does anyone have any advice at all? Thank you so much.

I am not professing to have much experience on this matter and she is very young so it may just be a maturiity issue - but a family I am aware of have a child (7 ) who was very bright verbally but struggled with the written word had their childs eyes tested by an optician who did a kind of dyslexia eye test and this was the problem. Another thing that has been tried by someone was to overlay coloured acetates over the page - pink in this instance and the child found reading much easier.

www.dyslexiaadvice.co.uk/

If you want to work with her every night at home I recommend Bear Necessities as a good place to start.

My daughter struggled with reading a bit in reception and the reading scheme 'Jelly and Bean' seemed to resolve it.

Perception - this child isn't in reception, and isn't struggling a 'bit'. She's struggling a lot.

Jelly & Bean is excellent. And will help kids who aren't struggling or who are struggling a bit.

I think this child is going to take a lot more help than that though.

Thank you so much and apologies for the late response. I have shared care of my 3 and when they're with me it's all a bit hectic.

I will definitely look up Jelly and the Bean and try the acetates - thank you they're really good suggestions.

Indigobell - thank you - I've seen your threads on here and value your advice. Given your experience I'm not sure whether I'm heartened or dismayed that you think she's going to need a lot of help. I'm delighted for the input but it makes it more real if that makes sense.

I wonder if she's profoundly dyslexic and I think that 5 (she's Year 1) is too early to test? She's not at a particularly pushy school (which is good as far as I'm concerned) though they obviously need to teach her and want to stretch all their children. It's almost as if you can't teach her this stuff though. She is very creative and empathetic which mt indicate dyslexia.

I'm an academic but couldn't give two hoots if she's good at the written word or not. But I do, desperately, want to help her and ensure she's happy and developing at school. Hmn.

I've just spent two sets of 20 minutes trying to teach her 'they' and 'away' and she just doesn't have the faintest idea.

This is not normal for a 5 year old. I think you can safely assume she's dyslexic. (Depending on how you want to define dyslexia)

This is exactly the behaviour my DD displayed at 5.

If you've been following my posts you know I don't believe in testing for dyslexia - I just believe in getting on and curing it.

I believe dyslexia is caused by underlying problems that can be cured. And the sooner you get on with it, the sooner you'll cure them.

But - I also believe in starting off with something like Bear Necessities first. That is one of the best phonics programs out there. If it works, then great - she doesn't have dyslexia. If it doesn't work, then you have to start doing an awful lot of other stuff....

But you'll start doing the other stuff knowing that more or better teaching isn't the solution.

An eye test is a good suggestion. Thing is it's so hard to get a good one done. First of all I'd just ask her if her eyes hurt, if the words move, if the words are blurry etc.

Coloured overlays only help a tiny fraction of people with reading difficulties. And they're the ones for whom the words appear to move etc.

Spend the next few months trying to teach her to read, using something like Bear Necessities. Then if it doesn't help, you need to start trying out all the alternative therapies till you find the one that helps.

I'm fairly sure I know exactly what therapy you should start with - but I need to test it for a few more months. So get back to me after you've spent a few more months teaching her to read, and you're ready to try something else.

Thank you so much. I'll do as you say and keep working my way through your dyslexia site. I'll get the bear necessities stuff and keep following your posts.

I'm so grateful. Interesting that this is how your DD was. Reassuring in a way. Thank you.

(have to go - she's pestering me to thread a needle for felting!)

Whoknew, you are describing DC but you are wiser than I was. This is what I wish I had done or known, supported by our Ed psych, although DC was only dxd much later on despite me going on at people.

Worth getting her tested, including her hearing, as and when, and in the meantime read, read, read to her. you need to inculcate in her a feeling that books are to be enjoyed, even if she isn't the one doing the reading. While you're reading I think it's fine either for her to be cuddling up to you following the book or doing something with her hands that doesn't take too much focus. Pleasure is important. Funny books were great. Joke books are magic when she can start to read - the jokes are short and appeal.

Acetates and coloured glasses have helped a bit but they are not necessarily a magic wand.

Also take her to films, theatre, have books on tape in the car, to get the fantasy and fiction bit going and expose her to a very wide vocabulary.

Think about her joining a choir where they need to learn the words and music - she may have a good memory for things that make sense, may slowly associate words with sounds and it may help the attention/auditory focus. And if none of the chlidren have the music to read in a concert, it 's a great confidence booster, funnily, for those who can't read. It's worked for several children round here. Likewise if you can,get her to learn poetry - easy stuff like nursery rhymes - and reward her that can help. Obviously if it causes misery, stop.

We found competitive games based around recognition misery inducing - "helpful" relatives played ISpy and it was awful. But somehow variants on grandmother's basket (usually, I regret to say, the unPC I went to the arms dealer and I bought - materiel/nappies/elephants) were helpful, again in training the attention focus.

there are many children that are simply not ready for reading and writing tell about 7, lots of other country's recognize this and leave formal education tell then. i would pull her out of school and give her more time, she will want to learn later and then it will be easy, until she wants to it will be awful for you both.

bebanjo - huge amount of assumptions in your post.

You don't know if she'll want to learn later - nor do you know that she doesn't want to learn now.

And you don't know if it will be easy later.

If she does have dyslexia - which she may not - then all that leaving it 2 years will do, is waste 2 years when you could have been helping her. And it will mean that at 7 she'll be 3 years behind her peers.

If she does have dyslexia then the best thing to do is attack the problem now - while she's only 1 year behind.

Leaving it 2 years is certainly the last thing I'd recommend.

I think it is a massive assumption that because she could not learn the difference between 'they' and 'away' in 20 minutes that she is dyslexic. I certainly think it is a possibility, but not necessarily a definite.
An eye test by a good optician who will look for tracking difficulties and convergence issues would be a good starting point, alongside getting her hearing tested to rule out auditory issues. I agree with IndigoBell, that a diagnosis is not the be all and end all, however, a lot of the strategies used for teaching a dyslexic child (which you will find on the BDA or PATOSS website) are very good for all children. Make sure everything is as multisensory as possible...e,g, try writing the word 'away' on her back with your finger as you say it. Find strategies that work for her.
I would ask for an appointment with your childs class teacher to go through your concerns and talk about what school (and you!) can do to help her in the most effective way.

Indigobell, op says she has no interest in learning to read, not my assumption.
All children will want to learn when it becomes important to them. if she was taken out of school she would not be behind her peers, her peers could be autonomously educated children that do not want to read tell later.
This is just a different way of looking at it.

Sorry Bebanjo, I read your post as HEing her until 7, and then putting her back into school (at which stage she might well be 3 years behind)

But re-reading your post I see you didn't mention about ever sending her back to school. You are right - if you don't send a child to school then it doesn't matter where you are in comparison to your peers.

I'm not at all against HE. And frequently consider it for my kids, especially for my dyslexic DD. But I am very against pretending everything's OK when it's not.

And I think saying that it's fine that a Y1 child can't learn their alphabet is pretending that everything's OK when it's not......

Hi indigobell, thanks for that.
i think we will have to agree to disagree on the reading thing, as i read the post, the child does not want to read, and i dont see a problem with this as long as she can learn the things she wants to. to me there would be a problem if she could not learn the things she is interested in, IUSWIM.

But you don't know if she really doesn't want to learn reading, or if that's just a front she puts on because she finds it hard.

And you don't know if she'll be able to learn to read when she's older or not.

Nor do you know she can learn other things. Certainly my DD at 5 couldn't learn anything. Not being able to remember your alphabet suggests her DD has the same terrible memory problems my DD had. Where there was just nothing she could remember - not even her dolls names!

The only reason I don't HE my 9 year old dyslexic DD is because she loves school, and she would never forgive me if I forced her to leave.

So, it is equally possible to be 3 years behind your peers at school and still love it.

So, even though the OPs DD doesn't like to read with her at home, there's still every chance she loves school. The vast majority of kids do.

"bebanjo - huge amount of assumptions in your post."

Indigo- you've just 'diagnosed' a child you've never met with dyslexia!

I would agree with the eye test, ask for a screen for irlen Meyers as this is the condition that requires coloured overlays or glasses in my case. I was only diagnosed at 38 and it has made a huge difference to me although I never had problems recognising letters for me the lines on the page wiggle therefore making it harder to concentrate. If it is a struggle to make the words stay still it can put you off and a child of 5.7 doesn't have the developmental skills to work through it. My DD is a similar age and showing similar symptoms to myself we are waiting for a repeat appointment for her

Cyb - I have never said she has dyslexia. I've only said it's possible and likely - not that she has got it.

Also remember the defn of dyslexia is 'being unable to learn to read and/or spell despite having adequate instruction'. There's nothing fancy or medical about the term. It's the term used to describe the symptoms of struggling to learn to read.

The main point I'm trying to get across here is that the OP should be highlyconcerned that her y1 child can't learn her alphabet nor sight words.

How she describes her DD is exactly how my DD when sh was that age - and my DD has very bad dyslexia.

This notion that children learn when they're ready, and that 5 is very young to learn your alphabet is very damaging to kids with SEN.

Indigobell, please reread op and mine. no where does op say her child has any other learning difficulty's, maybe she does, but you dont know that.
no were does op say her child has any problems remembering anything other than letters and words, she may do but you dont know that.
i said "IF SHE CAN LEARN THE THINGS SHE IS INERESTD IN, I DONT SEE A PROBLEM" may be she cant, but you dont know that.
you say op is describing you DD, i fail to she how.
i never said there was a problem with a child being 2,3 or 4 years behind there peers, i fail to see how anyone can be behind if they learn as they are ready.
Yes of course she will want to learn to read one day, and will walk over hot coals when the time is wright for her.

That is not the official definition of dyslexia- just one organisations viewpoint. Check the BDA or PATOSS website for alternative definitions

If she is 5.7- I am estimating that your child is a summer born child around June. My dd was born in the summer and she seemed fairly behind her peers born in September. When she started Year 1 she was behind and was put through a reading recovery programme where she had to learn phonics and sounding out words such as cat- c-a-t, ship= sh-i-p something like that. She had to spent 20minutes everyday doing this usually at the beginning of the school day. She had to miss assembly and they organised the programme at times that would have caused less disruption with their day to day school timetable. Also as a parent I was expected to help everyday (about 10 minute/day) for the 16 weeks with homework that they were sent with everyday for 10minutes. Maybe you could try asking for this kind of help (reading recovery)through your SENCO for now so she does not fall behind. Even if she was identified as Dyslexic, my guess is that she will be put through a phonic based programme.

Blimey I would expect there to be a difference in ability ranges between a Sept and summer born child, especially in reception and year one .

I have no idea - as my DS is only in reception. He's not onto sight reading 'away' and 'they' yet and I can't imagine him being able to for a long time...

I just wanted to say, that reading the different advice people have given you, I can see the homeschooling approach/attitude - I really can. I would love to homeschool and do everything at the right pace for my child.

However homeschooling is not for us at the moment, unfortunately. My DS has mild cerebral palsy. He may well have reading problems, I'm not sure though yet.

He does have physical difficulties - they are very clear and obvious. I could not wait until he was 'ready' to learn how to use his body for this, that and the other because he will never be 'ready'. It is my parental responsibility to teach him how to use the parts of his body that don't work so well now whilst his brain is young and most flexible. I have to 'make' DS do his physio exercises. If I waited a couple of years he would just not be able to use his left hand/arm etc. Learning is slow and arduous. He would assume that these parts of his body just didn't work and certainly not want to try. I know.

I think the home education ethos of waiting for the right time is great if your child is healthy and fully functioning. But as Indigo says is it really worth making that assumption???

I am guessing that reading difficulties are as hard to overcome as physical difficulties - so I, as a parent, would not want to be waiting for the 'right' time if I was home schooling, or if I was sending my child to school ...