Common Entrance - what does it cover and at what sort of level? Just curious :)

[rooksby]

Hello!

Independent schools not on the agenda for us or our DC but I am really interested in the common entrance exam.

I've seen a few threads on MN about helping DC prepare for this and it sounds to me like it's quite rigorous? Does it always involve MFL, is it one paper or several subject papers? I had a google but you can't beat explanations from those who are familiar with the system.

I also find the comments about Eton v Winchester for e.g., pretty fascinating. I assumed that if you had enough money and standing your child would definitely get a place but some stuff I've read on MN suggests it's not. I also thought that one of the things you were paying for was for your child to reach their maximum potential but some of the dimmocks on Made In Chelsea have me wondering...

NB I'm not interested in a bunfight about the rights and wrongs of it all.
Personally I would not choose private education for my DC (even if we could afford it :) ) but respect others choice to do so - I accept not everyone shares the same views as me and think that state education is pretty inadequate.

My main interest here is what the "average" child would know, versus what the child prepped for CE would need to know. I wish MFL were taught properly from 7 in our state schools but hey ho.

I get the impression a child prepared for CE would have a breadth of knowledge comparable to me as a school leaver...could be wrong though, one of my best friends went to a public school and he's not overburdened with general knowledge!

If you've managed to make head nor tail of this thank you :)

To clarify, I have another son and he is at a different prep.

Which stops at 13. Most schools that go on to 18 are not that rigorous if they are unselective.

CE is not at all hard I don't think...but it is broad, which is why it is so engaging I think.
Plus so many boys will already have a place at thir prfered schools by Easter in year eight, many before that even. It's the only way to keep everyone focussed.

That said, the scholarship stuff is buggeryfuckery hard...that's the technical term

Lol at wordfactory.

Most kids may have their places but they are conditional on passing CE in June.

Sure, but the % they have to get is easily doable no? I haven't heard of anyone failing at the final hurdle iyswim.

DS has been told that if he does well enough in his scholarship exams he doesn't even have to sit CE. Christ knows how he will fill his days then!!!! Do they have exams in football, PS3 and eating Crunchies?

Where is he sitting the scholarship for? Hope he's not one more boy competing with DS!

I was surprised how easy CE is I'm thinking about the science paper and the geography the two subjects I really know something about. CE's advantage is its broadness which occurs earlier than in the state sector and obviously the early teaching of a foreign language. But I think many are now being coached to pass it and I suspect that in the future the more academic schools will start writing their own exam rather than keep pushing up their individual pass mark. Someone at St Pauls once said to me; "lets face it anyone can get 68%" possibly not everyone but more than ten years ago.

The maths CE is very easy but not foundation GCSE Maths, which is shocking!

I teach at a state senior school, though not maths so cannot fully comment on foundation level GCSE being equivalent to CE maths, however the English papers that my DS has been working on are most certainly equivalent to what year 11 students are expected to be able to answer if they are hoping to achieve A-B grade. However the CE English papers I've seen from last year (DS mock mock exam papers) are certainly not of A level standard, perhaps the scholarship papers may be a little closer to the top end of the scale regarding GCSE work but the questions, the depth and understanding of texts etc are not A level standard in the normal CE papers.
I know that my son has worked hard over many years and has been given the opportunity to practise exam technique since year 3 (and this is a skill in itself). He will be doing scholarships (Academic, sports and music) when he returns to school soon so I'm not really sure how relevant CE is to him. This is all new to me as we've never been through this before!

CE is not equivalent to A'level but certain schools scholarship papers ate beyond A'level or allow for the answer to go beyond A'level. Not all scholarships are equal. A boy getting a scholarship to Radley would probably be no where near the level of a Winchester scholar.

I've taught kids for 11+ and 13+ CE and scholarships, and my eldest sat the CE a few years back. I am also a former public school scholarship holder.

Pass marks vary according to the school, how academic it perceives itself to be in relation to its geographical or social neighbours, the background of the pupils as others have said, and the range of stuff covered is more or less what the National Curriculum covers, with additional papers in subjects such as Greek and Latin for those who study such subjects at school. So you will get some candidates answering at Level 4 and others who are well up into Higher Tier GCSE territory. Interestingly, considering the demographics of the applicants concerned, similar material is often covered in maintained schools for such candidates - it is not unheard of for 11 year olds in good primary schools to be doing GCSE level work in Maths, for example. A Level standard is less common, as prep school teachers and primary school teachers are not usually very well trained or equipped to deliver this type of curriculum in the whole class teaching systems that predominate in schools for younger children. So this would not be expected unless the candidate was at a particularly unusual school that had such facilities (usually one with tiny classes, or with a senior school attached, where special arrangements could be made, for example, and even then you would probably only be talking about things like Maths, where it is easy to accelerate kids who don't have the levels of maturity required to work at this level in all subjects). Schools certainly don't expect the impossible.

Where state school kids tend to fall down is exam technique, timing, layout of work, ensuring they have no gaps at all in their knowledge, and that kind of thing. Here parents can help, and sometimes tutors. However it is not essential to hire tutors. As a rule, schools can and do look leniently and favourably on bright and/or keen applicants from state schools as they help to ensure there is a healthy mix of pupils at the school (which is possibly why the bright boy did not get into Eton, as someone else has described). Just being brainy is not enough, nor is just being wealthy, nor is just being drilled in the subject matter. Having some connections can tip the balance if your child is borderline (for example being an old boy or old girl, or having done something important for the school), but there isn't a mysterious black art getting your child into these places, nor does throwing money at it necessarily guarantee a positive outcome (although a bit of exam paper practice and making sure you haven't left anything out during your preparation is important). My advice would to all parents would be to be more laid back than your neighbours probably are, and remember there is more than one school on the planet that is right for your child.