What are my rights to withold school fees?...

[mummytippy]

Hi everyone,

I'll try and keep to the point with this very stressful and upsetting matter.

My son started at an independent school just after Easter. At this point he was 4. He turned 5 at the end of June.
We were due to move house (a move of just over 20 miles) so I decided on a school close to where we were going to and have now moved to. This was to try and ease any upheaval... as at least I hoped he'd remain at the same school despite moving house.

Upon enrollment the Headmistress advised that as the Easter term was short, and my son was a summer born boy, his progress would be monitored. She said that should he need a little more time to settle in he would continue after the summer hols in Reception and join year one after the October half term.

He settled in well. On the whole he's a very well behaved child and if anything he adapted well with the transition from nursery (free-play environment) to the more structured classroom environment.

At first things seemed fine, I found there to be small problems... little things... for example, letters home about uniform and important dates would name my son incorrectly... and I too would be addressed in-correctly (wrong surname and title). I dismissed these as felt they were minor.

As the summer hols approached I wasn't contacted as discussed by the head or my son's class teacher regarding his progress.
The head does have a reputation as quite formidable. Most parents find her very intimidating.
Instead of being contacted personally as I'd believed I would, I received a sheet of paper on the last day of term with a tick in the box telling me my son's progress was 'satisfactory'. This was not expanded upon.
I asked another parent with children in the same class... and apparently if you 'hadn't heard' it meant your child was going to start in year 1 after the holidays. I was pleased, as I felt my son must have met the required standard... in such a short term... and importantly it meant he could remain with his class mates.

After the (8 week) Summer holiday my son returned to school. After 3 days in, I found a compliment slip in his bag asking me to go into school as 'his behavior was causing reason for concern'. I was very shocked and worried... and wondered what on earth could he have done?

I arranged to see the headmistress the next morning. At the meeting (which the headmistress kept me waiting 20 minutes for) I was told my son had been sat 'twitching' at his table and 'fidgeting' with the contents of his pencil case.
I explained that this was very out of character... (usually if asked to stop, would) and perhaps as the holidays had been very long (as long as the Spring term) to maybe give him a few more days to settle in.
I was then completely shocked when the headmistress turned to me and said... 'Surely you know you have a naughty boy?' to which I replied dumbstruck ... 'Well, actually, he's relatively good at home... and has his moments... like most children' to which I got 'Oh, so he's an Angel at home and a terror here'... well his attitude has to change or you're wasting your money'!!! I did my best to remain composed and then re-iterated we were also moving house (upheaval, leaving his friends made since birth etc) and to bare this in mind and offer him additional support.

I am a lone parent and cannot say how much this shocked and hurt me to hear. Once I'd left the meeting, I went out to my car and sat and cried. Despite this, I felt I had to give the teacher and headmistress the benefit of the doubt, present a united front and had a chat with my son after school... explaining the importance of listening and learning at school.

From here, things went from bad to worse...
My son had started school being able to hold a pencil correctly but somehow now could barely do this? He was struggling to keep up too. As a result he was kept in a break times and part of the lunch hour and set extra work to do at home which I gladly did with him.

I received another note: Saying Griff's homework hadn't been done... but it had as I'd done it with him. I explained I knew it had definitely been completed as we'd had to use a blue pencil crayon (not ideal) and then the teacher sent a note saying 'It's turned up, 'my son' had hidden it at the bottom of the marking pile'. This is not something he would do... I seriously mean that... if anything he'd have to be told where to put the homework.

Then, about a week later, one morning whilst he was getting himself dressed for school he burst into tears... saying ' Please tell Mrs * (the head) I can dress myself Mummy!'. I couldn't believe how upset he was... and asked whatever had happened. He said he'd been dressing after P.E. the day before and the head had asked him if he dressed himself at home... on saying yes, she had replied with 'I don't believe you'. I can imagine he was probably dressing a little slowly... but he is only 5! I was not happy about him being demeaned.

By now I felt extremely unhappy and guilty in sending my son to school as he was clearly very unhappy... especially as the school seemed in no way to take any of the facts about our house move into consideration.

The final straw was my son being refused to go to the toilet after raising his hand and asking. As a result he wet himself in class and had to change into his P.E. shorts. I was humiliated and embarrassed and I out raged.

By this point we had reached October half term and I had to come to a decision... the last thing I wanted to do was create more upheaval. We had only been in our new home just over a week.
I felt I had no choice but to withdraw him from the school with immediate effect on the grounds that I felt he wasn't being treated or cared for properly.

I wrote to the headmistress explaining my reasons... to which she didn't acknowledge my letter but left a very rude answerphone message. I again wrote to her (going into more detail) to which again she replied very rudely, insulting me, saying I was rude and that I was being unfair to my son in removing him from the school and that he should have completed the term. She also said she felt I had written my letter of complaint to simply 'get out of paying the fees' and that she believes I cannot afford the fees'.
With regard to my son staying on, I was afraid of how he would be treated if he stayed, as they didn't seem to care about him before I'd raised my concerns.
With regard to affording the fees, the headmistress is not aware my son is now blissfully happy at another Independent fee paying school.

So, going back to my point about payment... I had been paying the school fees by direct debit each month... until September, where because I wasn't happy I put a stop on the DD. I withdrew my son at Oct half term... and was prepared to pay for Sept and Oct.

I am trying to look at this matter in a 'matter of fact' way which is:
'If you are unhappy with a service, do you pay for it?'
As I am extremely upset at the way my child has been treated and am unhappy with the standard of the education too, I am close to complaining to the ISC and Ofsted.

As a result of withholding payment, the headmistress has already
consulted a debt collection agency who are not only asking for the fees up to the end of term for which my son was withdrawn half-way (winter term) but she has also invoiced me for the Spring term of next year too.

I feel the school has failed my son and we have both been treated in a despicable manner. I would be very grateful for any advice and support.

Thank you in advance.

[mummytippy]

On speaking to other parents at the school... many have had issues and have been in and spoken to the headmistress and things have improved.
I found when I did, things got worse and if anything my son seemed to be singled out.
Before sending my son to this school I visited the independent secondary to which this is one of two prep schools.
I asked the head which out of the two schools he would pick... obviously he couldn't say but did say that the head of the school I was considering
''had her own way of doing things'... with hindsight... I now know what he meant... and importantly my son is now happy and thriving at the other school.

[amerryscot]

I don't think anything this school does could be right for you, OP.

If your child is being supervised by school staff during the fete, they cannot just let him go off on his own. They expect an adult to handover responsibility to, even if it's a free-for-all after that. Imagine if the last people to be responsible for his care were the school, and he wandered off-site? If you are tied-up with a stall, then you get another mum to fetch your child. Everyone knows that.

I imagine that you could have closed down your stall for a few minutes in order to check on your son.

I am a fairly lax parent, and even I would want to know where my 4 or 5 year old was at any one time. By the time they get to 7 or 8, I am more trusting when they are in a safe area.

It's a lot to take on a stall single-handedly when you are not familiar with the systems. It is better to let a year pass before you do this, and just enjoy yourself or be an assistant.

[mummytippy]

@amerryscot...
I'm sorry but I think you missed the point?
Other parents who were running stalls went to collect their children...
I was told on asking another parent whilst I managed the stall that the children came out into the playground at a certain time unless their parents had work commitments and couldn't come at all.
It was when I noticed the other parents children that I asked where my son was.

[EdithWeston]

From the timings you gave, the headmistress's attitude changed when you stopped paying.

[mummytippy]

btw... I'm a single parent.. so managing the stall alone was not a problem.
I wanted to be true part of the school by volunteering... managing the stall was fun, it's just a shame it had to come at the price of my son missing out.
In any case, if the school weren't at fault at keeping my son inside, I wonder why they apologised.

[mummytippy]

@EdithWeston... Please can you expand on this?

[amerryscot]

I imagine that they apologised in the same way that you apologise for being late when you are stuck in traffic. You are not to blame, but you are remorseful of the situation.

[mummytippy]

Well, if that's how you interpret an apology...
I take an apology to mean someone is truly sorry not remorseful.
The school didn't apologise about refusing to let my DS to go to the toilet after raising his hand and asking during class and as a result he had to sit and wet his pants in the classroom. Out of curiousity what's your opinion on that?

[amerryscot]

What is their toilet policy?

[QTPie]

What a mess...

To me it sounds like an awful lot of mis-understanding - on more than one side...

Really this should have been sorted out at the time and stopping paying the fees before withdrawing your DS from the school seemed incredibly unwise. Dealing directly with the head of governors and "negotiating" settling at paying for the end of the Autumn/Winter term (ie until Christmas) would have been the most likely positive outcome.

As asked before, why did you with-hold fees at the beginning of the Autumn term? How serious were your concerns? Did you raise them before with-holding fees? That sounds really odd to me. If your concerns are about someone specific (like the headmistress), then you should always raise them with the person above them in the food chain.

May I suggest that you stop communicating with the headmistress - the person with whom you seem to be having a lot of personal conflict - and start communicating with the head of governors for the school? Continuing to communicate with the headmistress will only add fuel to the fire and is incredibly unlikely to ressolve things.

I strongly suggest that you go to the CAB (as a starting point - rather than pouring money into a solicitor's purse) and find out where you stand legally: what, if any, action can be taken against you.

If legal action is likely to be taken against you, then I would suggest that you settle now: regardless of the rather charmless, not particularly helpful headmistress.... your story (told from your side) sounds like a "nasty personality clash between you and the head, you decide to remove your son from the school, but want to avoid paying the penalty in the contract that you signed". I would strongly expect a court to find in favour of the school.

I also wonder if you can be added to any credit blacklists (with/without legal action against you): in which case that could cause you problems in future too.

The most important thing is that your DS is now at a school that both he and you are happy with - which is great. However, you do need to untangle yourself from any legal/financial fall-out from this.

Good luck
QT

[amerryscot]

QTPie,

I think your name can only be added to a credit blacklist if you actually have a CCJ against you.

[QTPie]

amerryscot, thanks - so if legal judgement was taken against the OP, but above "small claims court" level (has to be county court)?

How about her credit rating? Other debts can affect that, can't they? (having forgotten to make a few credit card payments in the past myself.... :( ).

There may be more local (especially educational) based fall-out though - depending on which Prep/Senior schools are applied for....

[ReduceRecycleRegift]

It only cost them about £20 to do a CCJ - very easy to do, then its on your name for years.

[mummytippy]

Going back to the point on this matter.

I am sorry that I sent my son to this school in the first place and that he had such a damaging experience.
At the same time I appreciate that I have not paid the fees yet for the final two months he was there.
I want to formerly complain about the school because of the way my son was treated. It was evident he was afraid to go to school... not simply that he didn't want to go. No child should experience this... especially as 5 year old and it being his first experience of school.
I intend writing to the chair of the school governors, The IS, The ISC, Ofsted, but feel my non payment of fees (which was initially an oversight) will go against me. I intended paying. It was only after the headmistress was so rude to me on an answerphone message she left me and in writing that I feel the school does not deserve to be paid yet.

[PeaceofCakeAndGoodWineToAllMN]

You have to pay them. Pay them first, then complain as it will look as though you're using any excuse that you can think of to get out of paying the fees. Parents do this. They will owe the school money, their child is then removed from the school, the parents will then say that their child was not cared for or the education was substandard. It rarely works.

For what it's worth, if you wish to go down the legal route then you will be asked if you followed the schools complaints procedure and they will look at the dates in which you complained. If you did not complain until after you removed your child then this is going to cause huge issues as, again, it looks as though you're nit picking in order to get out of paying the fees that you owe.

[mummytippy]

Thank you QTPie...
With hindsight I should have acted at the time... but I was merely trying to give my son more time to settle in as his 'behaviour problem' was concentration. I felt awkward and as I could sense the headmistress didn't particularly like my son for whatever reason (via another parent I heard she apparently doesn't like boys) I didn't want to create any conflict and make things possibly worse for him. I know now I should have said something.

I will as I've just said in my last post contact the chair of governors to try and sort this matter out.

[QTPie]

The school fayre thing honestly sounds like a misunderstanding - the headmistress had a lot on her mind and just didn't add "two and two": blooming annoying for the OP and her child, but these things happen. In an ideal world they don't, but this is far from an ideal world.

The same with being late for the meeting. I think that the headmistress probably does more in the playground than just "blowing a whistle" - I sure hope that she does. She is supervising her staff, seeing what the kids are up to, keeping an eye out for strangers etc: generally looking at the bigger picture of how the school is working. May look like she is skiving off and "just making you wait on purpose", but I doubt it... People are late for meetings, it happens (my private ObGyn was late for many of my meetings with her... fortunately she turned up for the birth ;) )

Also, the OP's son wetting himself, there may well have been a very good reason why the teacher couldn't let him go or he may have just asked too late and had an accident (did the teacher admit to not letting him go? If she didn't let him go, why didn't she?). Accidents do happen and sometimes kids are just too embarrassed to admit it...

Misunderstandings happen, accidents happen. A big part of life... We are all little people in a very complex pattern of life: sometimes lots of incidents happen to us (or don't - we get overlooked) and it feels as though it is on purpose when it really isn't... :(

[QTPie]

OP, Good luck getting this ressolved (with the Board of Governors - definitely a step in the right direction...).

Let us know how you get on.

QT

[LondonMumsie]

You have every right to be upset.

You have no right to skip payment.

[mummytippy]

@Peaceofcakeandgoodwill...
Thanks, I agree and it seems fair to pay up to the point I removed my son.
As I've already said... it was initially an oversight with the D.Debit but then the more incidents that happened the less inclined I've felt.
I did complain to my DS's class teacher about him being referred to as a ''naughty boy'' during the meeting with her and the head, and about her calling him ''lazy'' during a lesson where he'd asked how to do something. After this her attitude seemed to improve towards my son. This meeting was a month before I removed him. I simply asked again if they could cut him some slack as we were about to move house.

[DoesntChristmasDragOn]

How is deliberately putting a stop on your DD for the fees "an oversight"?!

[mummytippy]

@QTPie... Thank you I will let you know how I get on and yes it does sometimes feel like a lots happens in a short space of time.

@amerryscot... The toilet procedure at the school is that in Reception raise your hand. ask and you can go.
My son was two weeks into Year 1 and wasn't aware this had changed.

It is such a mess... I would rather my son have been treated property... I would have paid... and he'd have still been there. The last thing I wanted was the upheaval... but that beat being scared of going to school.

[PeaceofCakeAndGoodWineToAllMN]

It's standard practice in pretty much every private school that a full terms notice must be given or a terms fees are payable. You can't just pay up to the point where you removed your son, you didn't follow the procedure. If you're not able to pay all that you owe then you really do need to come to an arrangement with the school. You think of their behaviour towards your son as a seperate issue. He's happy now, that's what's important.

The head who took over ds's prep had real issues against parents whom he thought were 'undesirable,' (single mothers, those scraping by to afford the fees, parents who didn't wish to follow his religious teachings). I'm a single mother, I struggled with the fees as I was told by the previous head that a bursary would be availiable for ds. My son was treated very badly by him and I know how upsetting it is. Don't let it cloud your judgement though.

[mummytippy]

@Doesn'tChristmasDragOn...
Not sure you've read the whole thread but I stopped the DD because they requested the lower amount (with nursery voucher deducted) and I planned to set it up with them again for the new higher amount... then the house move distracted me.

[QTPie]

OP, go back to your original post - fifth paragraph from the bottom:
"So, going back to my point about payment... I had been paying the school fees by direct debit each month... until September, where because I wasn't happy I put a stop on the DD"

(that original statement may have been a mistake by you)