Year one, Boy, Writing problems (again)

[Mimsie]

Hi there

Here I am awake in the middle of the night for a problem that is not new, I have talked about it before on here, but I just don't know what to do

My DS (5 in year one) has never really shown an interest in writing. At the first parent teacher meeting the teacher mentionned that it was never his strong point (she had him in reception as well) and that he was just not interested. I did say I would do anything I could to help but she never asked me to. until....

Yesterday, my DS came out and said the teacher wanted to talk to me. I went in and it was because he wasn't doing any substential amount of writing in school. he wasn't improving at all and spend the time assigned for writing daydreaming. so she asked me to complete the work at home

He does do the writing if under supervision, and does quite well. but left to his own device... I dunno he seems to have the ability to sit on a chair and daydream for hours on end!!

It's not that he can't do it, he's great at spellings, since the start of the year he got 10/10 on all his weekly spellings (appart from one week he spelt pretend with a "t" at the end) and some of them I would consider quite hard like splendid, screw etc.... When I worked with him I was quite impressed really at his attempts... he managed to spell "squeak"... but it took him 1hour to write 30 odd words!!! I dont mean to say his spelling is perfect he does write sometimes on sound only like "sori" for sorry etc... but it's generally quite easy to read.

He must listen in school as he knew that after "q" came "u" and I never have to make him practise his spellings because he knows them from learning them at school during the week...

Today he came home with more work to do because he was once more daydreaming and didnt finish! And it really wasnt much it was just a question of having to copy what the teacher had written on the board... I asked the teacher what I could do to help and she answered "I wish I knew"

So there you go I hope some of you do!

Another small point, maybe I am getting paranoid now, but he does daydream a lot... he is able to have some really in depth conversations with me or his dad, but quite often when we meet people and they ask him simple questions like what's your name and how old are you?, I have to get his attention and repeat the questions for him to answer caus he does quite often seem to be in a little world of his own!

I'm not fully with it at the moment so I hope I make sense. What is he like with his other motor skills, gross and fine ? What's he like socially and what's he been like with his other milestones generally up to date ? When he does write, is his pencil grip OK or does he struggle with this. I'm a firm believer in getting fish oils down them to help with attention span. The main supermarkets and Boots sell Eye Q which is pretty good if you can get him to take it, but there are others available and I think I have heard that some children have become hyperactive on this. Do you think the daydreaming is something he does because he is finding writing hard ?

Fine motor skill not the greatest, (bear in mind am not english so I might not make complete sense either lol) he can undo his shirt top button, he pick up his pen a bit too close to the tip for my liking, but never ever shown an interest with drawing either.

Gross motor skill dunno, he's only just learning to ride his bike without the stabilisers, and he is positively useless at his swimming lessons

Other milestone he was never any concern, quite the opposite in fact, knew his colours really young (2) and the health visitor told me when he was 2 that he would find reading easy (though god knows how she knew but she was right) and he is able to sit and do his number work at school without any problems.

I used to give him omega 3... but it didnt seem to make all that much difference though since monday I went and got some more!

Oh yes and socially he seems fine he's got a best friend at school and he never complains about having no friends... He is maybe a over cuddly/friendly with the women/girls (am a very cuddly mum)

it's just that i do notice that he is a bit in a world of his own... he can be in the lounge for hours and hours and you wouldnt hear a word from him honestly... I never really noticed until a friend pointed it out to me when he went to her house. Her son wasnt there and my DS was upstairs on his own, she said she nearly forgot he was there!!! but he and her son play quite happily when they are together.

What about things like jumping, pedalling a little trike, using scissors, doing jigsaws, feeding himself, dressing himself & what's he like socially ? Sorry I'm quizzing you here. My DD has problems writing as she has dyspraxia which is a motor skills and organisational problem and she's hypermobile (her joints are too flexible) so I've been through issues with writing for the last couple of years.

jumping and trike he was quite late... I saw it as him never being very brave, he's what i'd consider over careful, over "sensible" when it comes to climbing or anything physical. I certainly never had to worry about him hurting himself when going to the park! though he is recently getting braver

Scissors, jigsaw, feeding himself normal... dressing himself he's fine though he takes forever cause he goes upstairs and gets distracted.

Quizz away!!! Am happy to explore all the avenues!

My DD came home really upset as she had been told off for daydreaming and said "but Mummy, I wasn't, I had just run out of fingers to do my number bonds on". I think for her she looks as if she is daydreaming when she is struggling and sort of shuts off. How does he feel about writing, does he say he finds it hard ? DD struggled to hold the pencil in year 1 (she's now in year 2) and became really demoralised about writing, kept on saying she was the worst writer in the school etc. The SENCO decided that she would write 2 sentences maximum, then the classroom assistant would scribe for her or DD would use a tape recorder to get down what she wanted. By taking the pressure off she improved and apparently now her new teacher said if anything, the problem is slowing her down ! Another thought has just occurred to me, is his eyesight definitely OK, I'm just wondering if he struggles to see the board.

He doesnt complain about it being hard... He just doesnt do it lol!! When asked before he has once told me it's because he was lazy... And today he told me he was tired... So we had a very early night but he didnt seem that tired he skipped all the way back home from school!

The teacher doesn't seem to be questioning that much... and I am not sure as to whom to turn at the school to get this investigated further without looking like i am going behind her back!

She certainly doesnt think he is struggling because all she keeps saying is that he can do it if she is looking at him, she turns her back and he stops! So for now she seems to have decided to make him to it at home... and she told him if you did it in the class you wouldnt have to take it home... But it doesnt seem to bother him that much! As much as I don't want to stress him up, I would like to see him take it at least a tiny bit seriously!

I just worry there is an underlaying problem somewhere that is being missed!

Eyesight he's never had a problem, got checked last year at school not this year yet though

going to bed now, I'm going to be the tired one tomorrow!!!!

She doesn't seem to be very good at thinking of ways to encourage him really does she ? All too easy for her to say that he should do it at home but it doesn't solve the problem. I think I'd say to her that you would like to have a quick word with the school's SENCO (special educational needs co-ordinator) and discuss it with him or her to see what they suggest. He sounds like he's doing pretty well with everything else. I know you're a bit concerned about the daydreaming though and I think it would be helpful for you to be able to discuss it with someone who hopefully knows what they are doing and should be able to put your mind at rest. I'm not at my best at this time of night so I hope I've made some sense. I'm sure that more people will be along in the morning with suggestions. Hope you get some sleep soon.

Mimsie, I'm SO not an expert on this but your son sounds so sweet that I can't resist adding a message!.

How is he with other subjects? Maths? Does this daydreaming carry on throughout his school day? Is it only to do with writing in English or writing at all?

He sounds so fine in all other ways that I wouldn't worry. The daydreaming bit is sooo normal, so many children are like this.

One thing that I thought might help is perhaps a strategy to encourage him to finish his work at school. At the moment, there's no problem - he doesn't finish at school so he just brings it home. Maybe in the back of his mind he might think "ah, relax, and do it later"!!! So perhaps try saying that on Monday, you are going to take him to (Insert place he absolutely adores and wouldn't normally go to on school night) but you can only have time to go there if he brings no work home to finish. Keep drumming it in that if he doesn't finish, he can't go.

Obviously if you think it's unrealistic to suddenly complete his work, then make a more realistic target - only half an hours work or something.

I dunno if you think this will work - it's just a positive target to perhaps keep his mind on the job a bit. But to be honest I wouldn't see it as a great problem. Unless there is some learning need he needs support with (which it really doesn't sound like) then he will sort the problem himself when it matters TO HIM. But I reckon a bit of target setting might help.

I think that the teacher needs to try to find some strategies that will work in the classroom rather than relying on you to help ds finish the work off at home.

My ds1 is also 5yrs old and in Yr1. He has some special needs (autistic) but also has some similar difficulties to those your ds is experiencing. His teacher last year explained that it's fairly common for boys to have more difficulty with writing than girls do. My ds1 still has some problems with his fine motor skills but the school have been giving him different activities to help improve them, eg rolling and shaping plasticine, mark-making with different materials, offering him a triangular pencil so that he can get a better grip.

Ds1 is also good at spellings but finds it difficult to get them down on paper. By the time he's got around to writing the first word the rest of the class are writing the 3rd or 4th word. His teacher has overcome this problem by letting him sit with the classroom assistant during spelling tests. She helps him to stay focussed but also gives him the time he needs to form the letters and words.

If your son's teacher has acknowledged that there is a problem then she really should be speaking to the SENCO (special needs co-ordinator) about strategies to help. She shouldn't be worrying you by raising concerns and then leaving you to deal with it alone.

Mimsie, I think I might have responded to one of your earlier messages - have you changed your name at all? (I used to be binkie.)

My ds is very like yours (except mine is not as "sensible" (!) and he's a bit older - 6, year 2) - in a world of his own, vague, dreamy, distracted, fantastic at maths, very competent reader; but writing is sometimes like blood out of a stone. It is very slowly getting better. Things he has responded to:

• just lots and lots and lots of practice: last summer we kept a "journal" where he had to write just one sentence a day about what he'd done, and the difference between the beginning & end of the summer was huge;

• masses of praise (the summer journal really good for this - you can look back together and say, look how brilliantly you're writing now);

• egg-timers, rewards, and clear targets (put a dot a few lines down the page and tell him to write as far as the dot).

My ds's difficulties were a combination of (i) enjoying the speed of thinking but being frustrated by the comparative slowness of writing [very typical of the very bright, apparently]; (ii) being a bit clumsy (which made the writing even slower and more frustrating); (iii) being a rather subtle thinker, so what he wanted to write would always be dense & complicated - setting the bar very high for himself, so that he got stressed before he even started.

The journal (again) was very very helpful with that last bit - we were able to talk about what he'd done and wanted to say and boil it down into something simple and easy to write out. I wouldn't underestimate that bit, if your ds is anything like mine.

Sorry about length. Subject is dear to my heart!

dd2 was just like this, hated writing but had no problems with maths etc. Teacher said if she was put on a table on her own, next to the teacher it would all be finished without any problems. Unfortunately, we didn't find any 'quick fix' solutions. We just kept plugging away at it. She's now in yr4 and still hates writing stories, but does manage to do ok. re: copying things from the board, make sure you check his eyesight at he may be having problems seeing them properly. We had this problem with dd1, turns out her eyesight was fine but all classes now use whiteboards and where she sat was getting a lot of reflection from the sun - teacher moved the class around a bit & solved the problem.
Btw there is an article in the Express (I think) that said daydreaming children are actually concentrating on solving the problem and it is easier for them to solve complex problems if they are not looking at you directly - so you may find he is not 'drifting off' just thinking really deep thoughts

oh, I like that about daydreamers being problem solvers!
Fits my ds - on a car journey when he was 4ish he asked what friction was: dh told him that friction is when something has jagged atoms so is difficult to move across something else. Long long silence, then: "Does glue have zigzaggy atoms, then?"

Message withdrawn

BTW if his problems is story writing see if you can get the teacher to agree to him only being expected to write a set number of sentences - start small (like 3 or 4). He may find that he's looking at some of the others producing a page of work & just deciding he can't compete so don't bother trying. Make sure he gets lots of praise for his 3 sentences, and then try upping it gradually.

Hi again!!

Talked to the teacher briefly this morning and she has asked me how I got on... She seems quite jokey about it which annoys me a bit in a sense because it's clearly a problem as he doesnt do much in school... Apparently he daydream with his number work as well... She says he does finish it in time though but that given the ease with which he does it, he should be doing the extra work as well... but he doesnt! and again she goes on on how he can sooooo do it!

With the news writing she said that he basically lies and say we do nothing all weekend. He got caught doing that last year as the teacher knew we went to France on holidays to see my family and he said we just stayed at home. When I asked why he lied he said "because then she'd ask me to write it".

So yes we need motivation. I like the idea, Dexter, of saying we won't have time to do so and so because we have to do your work. I know my DS and indeed I do think he views the taking home as a "oh well I can always do that at home later!" I think DS favourite phrase is "ner it doesnt matter"

I like the egg timer and journal idea to try and 1. practise 2. insert some sort of competition element.

I think a high proportion of his problem is that he is far far too chilled out!!

He gets pocket money as well I did wonder whether I should make the pocket money from weekly into a daily occurence and he only gets it if he has finished all his work, or at least his teacher is happy he's tried. I could ask her to implement the sticker chart thing and he only gets his money if he got his sticker...

I would like senco involved though to know where I stand.

It is his character to be relaxed, laid back and I never had a problem with it until now.

I asked his dad to talk to him (but dad think DS is a little genius) According to DH, DS said "the teacher must think am stupid because she keeps on repeating herself". Now not that I want to question DH but he is soooo convinced that DS is bright (DH was IQ tested at school and scored 189 and I sometimes feels he just assume DS is the same) So I asked DS this morning why he said to his dad that his teacher keeps on tell him the same thing. he said they just did the same as they did in reception. I said "but surely it's harder now" he replies "nah not for me". so I said "why don't you do the work then" and he just gives me the cheeky smile. He does the same with his teacher and though I hate myself for it you can't help but smile back! and then it's all a joke again grrrrrrrrrrrrrr If he doesnt give you the killer smile he comes up

oops forgot to finish my sentence...

If not the smile he just come up with I love you, or I'd rather give you kisses and cuddles...

Yes - motivation - we have a sheet for ds to earn points towards a make-it-yourself clock, points being awarded for things which he knows he finds difficult or tiresome.

When one of these comes up (Christmas thank yous currently) we discuss what might be earned: so he & I agreed together that if he writes a whole letter by himself, all the way down to "love from ds", without any pushing from me, that gets 2 points; if I have to push, even once, the completed letter gets only half a point.

The important thing is that he gets to be involved in the bargain, and that there is something competitive - you write your letter before mummy gets a chance to remind you.

Not sure if this would work with yours, as he does sound more laid back (and a real Gallic charmer too!).

oooo I like that idea Bink... how many point to the clock? as in how long would it take at 2 points to complete it?

Now all I have to think is of something he wants... Legos here we come... Caus I can do the sticker chart/pocket money for school... And the sticker chart to lego at home for his practise... Just hope he'll go for it and doesnt realise he can buy the lego with pocket money should he want to!! lol... The other niggling thought is that he doesnt seem all that bothered about toys as such... (he is one weird child!! lol!!) I'll take him to wolthworths this afternoon and see if he can pick something...

Physically he sounds similar to our ds who is almost 8 and has similar issues to kittypickle's dd. I can identify with a lot of what you describe. ds hit a lot of the early physical milestones - sitting, rolling, crawling - but once he was walking seemed to lose pace with his peers so was late jumping, hopping, riding a bike(not quite there yet !), unadventurous at climbing etc and had little interest in playdoh, art/craft activities, practise writing/making marks. However he was interested intellectually
in books, colours, how things worked and so on, had a wide vocabulary and could entertain himself for hours, so we didn't worry .

He rarely finishes written work at school because he finds writing so hard physically and tiring. He has great ideas but just cannot put them down to his satisfaction and tends to produce the minimum. Similarly he has difficulties staying focussed and remembering what he should be doing next to complete the task set. At the age of 4/5 he was described as dreamy in class and not quick enough to change for break, for example.

atm he is having specific handwriting help, involving warm up exercises for shoudlers and fingers, then working on groups of letters. His handwriting has improved so much over the past 2 months but still a long way to go before it is up with his peers and doing this independently is another step yet to come. He is starting to produce more and, even better, take pride in doing so. Some kids at his school have touchtyping lessons and lap tops to help them later on.

hth

My ds isn't a very "having" boy either, or if there is something he'd like, he doesn't mind waiting (so he's been keen on a Guinness Book of Records for months now, but quite happy to wait for it for his 7th b'day in April). So ... the clock points chart has been going since January 2005!! - but we're very nearly there.

Would your ds like to earn towards a trip out, Legoland or something? Would that be more of a motivator? - my ds would also love that.

The more I think about school, the more I feel for kids! Obviously I know there is certain work to be done to help them reach their full potential which as parents we want to do - but sometimes maybe we need to get off their backs a bit? Accept them for what and who they are. Your son sounds adorable and I'm sure his charm will get him a long way in life.

yup I know the feeling Dexter... A I just hate myself right now, went to pick him up, with a plan to talk sensibly to the teacher etc... got there she gave me what they were supposed to do in class and he did absolutely nothing!!! not even one sentence!!

I fell myself swelling up inside... got out before I burst into tears and I got so cross with him and I feel terrible. Yet I can't let him fall that far behind...

Got home he's doing it right now and I think I've just realised he doesnt know what a sentence is! He has to write about Mexico... question how far is mexico. he answer 5000 miles.
Me: yes now make it into a sentence.
DS: errr
Me: do you know what a sentence is
DS: yes when there are more words
Me: mmmm yes sort of
DS: ahhh yes I know... more that 5000 miles
Me: errr no that's not a sentence...
DS: looking confused
Me: errr mmm ending up telling him the sentence which he duly wrote

He's got in now though and wrote a pretty decent story... see how we get on tomorrow

actually was a funny moment after him saying more than 5000 miles I said well... more than that... replies errrr... more than 6000 miles, caus that's definitaly more than 5000...