I probably am. Schools and medicine degrees...

[PrincessIncognita]

Do all schools treat potential medics as the bee's knees, the mutt's nuts, and all other choiciest bits of animal rolled into one?

I only ask as this happened to me, and it's happening again to my DSis, and I'm really irritated. She's applying for NatSci at Cambridge (and other universities), but school aren't offering her any interview help, her link teacher for her application isn't a science teacher and nobody seems interested in her at all to be honest.

In the meantime, school have organised interviews for the medics, and they all have senior science teachers for their applications.

The thing that irritates me is that the course my DSis wants to do actually requires higher grades than practically all medicine degrees, and arguably a harder interview.

And, none of the science teachers have a medicine degree. So why are they bending over backwards to help the medics, and ignoring people wanting to do a subject degree that's just as hard, if not harder, to get onto?

I got absolutely fuck all help with interview practice for university. I was at a run down 6th form college for a-levels. It was for a law degree which is just as popular and hard to get on to. I got in. It was a decent red brick university in the top 25 on the league tables too.

If they need coaching to get through interviews then..... well I don't know what to say.

No, it's not that per se.

It just seems so unfair to raise one group above the rest in this way.

Schools like the way that having lots of medics looks to other potential parents. It's surprising that your DSis hasn't got a specific tutor because she's applying to Cambridge though, schools just love advertising their number of Oxbridge, medics, vets and dentists! I have taught chemistry for 6 years and have never taught a medic, however I am just as proud of all the chemists, physicists, chemical engineers, mathematicians and the lad who went to do PPE at Oxford......

Hi there, w've moved this thread into education
Thanks
M Towers

Oh, ok, thanks Olivia.

Sorry, I was ranting really!

Has she approached her subject teachers for help? I would be surprised if they turned her down if she actually asked.

Do you know anyone outside of school who could do a decent practice with her?

Yes, but unfortunately her subject teacher is one of the link teachers for the medics. She told her not to ask the other teacher who teaches her as "she's so busy with all the dentists and vets".

Sorry, she told her she was too busy and to not ask...

I might tell her to e-mail my A-level teacher (retired now) because she set an interview up for me. Good idea, thank you

It may be just lack of knowledge about the subject. As far as i'm aware natsci is only offered by Cambridge and I didn't know what it was until a colleague of mine (who studied it) told me what it entailed. With medics the school probably have had more experience of the whole interview process and so don't Feel so out of their depth. Oxbridge does have these very niche degree subjects which are not offered elsewhere and which private schools make it their business to know about.

Surely she has at least 2 sciences at A level so minimum of 2 teachers, plus the rest of each department or even some student teachers who might be willing to have a go.

NatSci isn't Cambridge only (I think Brunel and Durham offer it too), but it isn't really that specialist for interviews as generally you have 2 or 3 interviews in separate sciences/maths, so a chemistry teacher could do a chemistry interview and a biologist a biology one and so on. It is just a mixed science course. I remember being asked some fairly standard questions like drawing out a particular chemical mechanism, something to do with a blob of water in space and then it orbiting the earth, stuff about what I read outside of school work, hobbies, interests, what science I thought I would specialise in in NatSci and what I would do with my degree after that. At a Bristol interview I had to do the proof for the maximum distance that a bullet will go is when shot at a 45 degree angle - that was a physics interview.

We had extra Oxbridge/medic sessions in our A level subjects which were useful preparation as they went beyond A level and required more application of ideas rather than just learning by rote - so taking something familiar and pushing it that bit further. They were a bit like doing the physics/chemistry olympiad questions.

The internet seems to be awash with example questions that people have been asked at interviews, so you don't really need an expert to do the mock interview. I am doing one for a friend's relative who is applying for medicine. I am not a doctor, but I think I can do a decent attempt at interview practice for her.

My DCs school isn't like that, or any of the other schools I know. They do often early identify groups of "Oxbridge" candidates, which actually often leaves out the less traditional "Oxbridge" ones, but everyone gets help/advice, and targetted at them. Has she spoken to her subject teachers? Do they do any general Oxbridge preparation?

Yep, you're right breatheslowly, they do it at Durham, Bristol, Bath, East Anglia and maybe one or two others. Everywhere's put their grades up this year, East Anglia are asking for A*AA. It was AAB when I applied!

No general Oxbridge preparation, it's all done through departments, which is fantastic if you're doing history or languages/ something with small-ish class sizes.

I think it's just unlucky that an awful lot of people from the school apply for dentistry/medicine/vet sciences, and the science teachers prioritise these over people applying for pure science.

The thing about the interviews is they get doctors in for the medics, or send them to universities to be interviewed by lecturers. I don't think it's that they don't have the contacts to do this for the 'pure' scientists, it's just because they're given other teachers as their link, and these other subject teachers don't have favours in the sciences to pull in.

It gets very difficult though when you're told not to speak to the other science teachers. I'd hoped it had had changed since I did it

I think I'll suggest 'the squeaky wheel gets the grease!', and tell her to speak to anyone she thinks can help, and sod the medics!

Has she seen these videos? In my opinion, they're very accurate, although it's worth bearing in mind that the students are 1st year undergrads confident enough to let themselves be videoed for the whole world to see, rather than real applicatns.

www.emma.cam.ac.uk/admissions/videos/interviews/

What popular science books has she read that she can discuss at interview? If she's a biologist, she might be interested in this one www.amazon.co.uk/Seed-Secret-Life-Plants/dp/074758561X, which is quite readable as I remember. This one is rather denser but I'm told is a very useful read for first years: www.amazon.co.uk/Emerald-Planet-plants-changed-history/dp/0199548145/ref=pd_cp_b_3

I'm surprised they're not supporting her Cambridge application but I dont think in general its about Medics being top of the tree - its probably becuase Medics always have interviews, everywhere.

Apart from Oxford and Cambridge, its unusual to have interviews for most subjects in most places, so for most students interview practice just isnt needed. But I can't understand ignoring a Cambridge applicant...

Do they understand that NatSci is what you apply for to do any science at Cambridge and then the specialism into Physics, BioChem comes in the later Part II stage of the course? Most 1st years take the IAs most linked to what they think they would like to do so someone who is fancying Biological sciences eg Genetics would do something like Cells, Physiology of Organisms, Chemistry and QB or whatever it's called nowadays - really not much different from what they would be doing if they applied for 'Biology' somewhere else.

Has the school sent students to Oxbridge much in the past, it may be that they don't know much about how the application process works so they don't realise that the same extra support would be useful - the school could go here for help. Perhaps your sis could talk to the head of 6th form about getting some extra support and having access to the same support the medics have?

Is this the same school/town. Because in my town we have a good network of preparation for Oxbridge (although I do wonder if they may miss some of the Science Geek types, who tend to have a less traditional profile). Although thinking about it, a lot of it is organised by the Classics teachers (at both State and Private schools).
Is your Sis at the same school you went to? Because it may be that school or area which is the problem rather than a general issue.
However from my experience tutors at colleges are quite open to questions from "bright" potential students.
It could be the school is trying to make up for the deficiencies of some potential medics, who do need to show a strong commitment to their subject. However for scientists then just contacting local Universities to see if they have sixth form lectures, the learned Societies and so on, if done through self-motivation will show far more initiative/commitment.

Well my DD didn't get any help from anyone when she applied for Medicine!! General UCAS talk for all 6th form and reminders that Med/Vet applicants had to have their forms in by 15th October and that was it.. no practice interviews or any such help: she got her place on natural ability at interview backed up with a stonkingly good academic performance... not sure how much higher than A*s a degree course can ask???

Probably schools that can offer interview practice etc for med/vet do so because there are sufficient applicants to make it doable.. and few other degrees require interviews.

good luck to your sister.. :)

Has she got an interview coming up at Cambridge?

Is it possible the teachers aren't helping her because they don't really think she's Cambridge material?

What were her GCSE and AS level results?

www.cam.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/natsci/

natsci at cambridge applicants per place for 2010: 4

medicine at cambridge applicants per place for 2010: 6

Both standard offer A*AA

And who can say whether one interviewer is harder than the other, since nobody has probably been through both.

Yep, her interview's next week. I thought that was quite late, but apparently the college interview in alphabetical order of subject . And she must be better than quite a few, as at least 4 have been rejected with no interview!

Her grades are good, all A*s apart from 1 (not sure which, but not science) at GCSE and all As at AS. I don't think it's just her- there's one other girl applying for it, and she's been moaning too.

It's a very good school so nobody pulls them up on it, but quite a few teachers have changed etc, so I wonder whether that's had an effect. When I started, it was normal for 12-15 (from a year of 80ish) to go to Oxbridge. Now, it's 4 or 5ish.

Sorry, didn't explain clearly, AAA is standard at Cambridge for medicine, but most other places are AAA still, while NatSci has really been notched up everywhere else this year (eg. East Anglia up to AAA).

In that case that's bad that she's had no help from her teachers. Shocking. Although if they're clueless one would question the benefit of a mock interview.

www.uea.ac.uk/sci/courses/bsc-natural-sciences#requirements

btw East Anglia remains AAA for natsci.

Sorry, it's the MNatSci with the A*AA. Here.

She has a mock interview tomorrow, my old teacher sorted it out for her, so should give her a bit of an idea I hope, just of a formal interview with somebody you don't know, if nothing else.