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Education

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Will free schools drive up standards? Read Toby Young's guest post and join the conversation

705 replies

ElenMumsnetBloggers · 01/12/2011 10:46

Are free schools ready to fall or fly? Do they really drive up standards or are they a snobbish gimmick? And should more parents be setting up their own schools? Journalist and producer Toby Young explains why he set up the West London Free School and what makes the free school proposition an exciting one. Join the conversation that Toby's begun and have your say on free schools.

OP posts:
Xenia · 08/12/2011 16:43

That might be similar to around here. My local comp 34% A - C at GCSE. My daughter's school 96% A- A* Okay that's a top 15 in the country always school and selective but there are a lot of other private schools out there too where locals go. In addition we have selective schools in Bucks which is not that far away. There is the state comp called rather confusingin Watford Grammar which is not a grammar school but certanily some parents would consider rather than our 34%er. Then a huge raft of state and private religious schools of just about all faiths

That leaves very very few left to go into the local comps and the 34% one near me is presumably the worst so the others who have the pupils not sent to those I mention above probably get the better people.

So choice can be best for parents and pupils but it goes mean you may end up with a school where most children don't do that well for whatever reason. of course as 50% chidlren in the UK don't get A - C in GCSE and plenty leave without a single D or E then may be the 34% is a massive achievement in that school.

ElaineReese · 08/12/2011 16:52

Do you not see how that makes no sense at all?

TalkinPeace2 · 08/12/2011 17:29

"the better people"
Xenia you have the most astoundingly narrow view of the world I have ever encountered.
I have to hope that it is just bravado for the forums because anybody who was like that in real life would be insufferable, as would their children.

academyblues · 08/12/2011 19:57

elaine, no, Xenia doesn't. She says the same thing, with the same inherent, illogical flaws in it over and over again.

mottledcat · 08/12/2011 20:59

Xenia's older DC went to the same universities as my (state educated) DCs....... and neither are Oxbridge. Just thought I would share that. :)

I have long given up trying to engage in any meaningful debate with her. We have made some ground over the years though. She does actually accept now that some state educated children can be as bright as those in the private sector...only if they've been to a grammar school though (and yes, Xenia, there are grammar schools outside Bucks/Kent who regularly send many pupils to Oxbridge). Unfortunately we haven't got as far as bright children at comprehensives yet....

(Bit off topic on a very interesting discussion, sorry, but just had to get that off my chest)

Xenia · 08/12/2011 21:09

I have never in my life said state school pupils are less clever than those at private schools. So it is wrong to say "I now accept" as if my view has altered. I know all about IQ and its distribution amongst the population.

I have never said chidlren at comps are not bright. 50% of children at good universities come from the sttae sector. However I don't think non selective schooling best serves clever children and comps have resulted in less social mobility and in essence therefore failed.
My children have done very very well from their private schools as did I. We're very lucky.

So no my views have not changed one iota. You also need to do a comparison if you're deciding whether to pay school fees of what those children end up doing in 10 or 20 years and their income over a 40 year period and lives to determine how they do as a good few from state schools might do well at university but are then held back by the clothes they wear or their accent or lack of knowledge of an industry etc. It certainly pays off hugely to pay fees in the UK.

mottledcat · 08/12/2011 22:06

'I have never in my life said state school pupils are less clever than those at private school'.....oh gosh, sorry, me and my memory, I must just be imagining it (quakes at thought of trawling through all of the state v private threads on Mumsnet over the years with various posters going beserk)

Glad your children have done very very well.

I am delighted with mine too.

Let's get the discussion back to Toby Young and his free schools. Much more interesting.

academyblues · 09/12/2011 10:35

PMSL@mottledcat

PollyParanoia · 09/12/2011 11:02

I've always wondered where Xenia's kids went to university as whenever she trumpets the astounding Oxbridge entrance of her kids' schools, she never mentions where they studied (though i do know her daughter has a starting salary of 60k which is the really important thing).

ElaineReese · 09/12/2011 11:24

She won't say in case it gives away who she is in real life!
wasn't oxbridge, though.

BoffinMum · 09/12/2011 16:20

Yes, but doesn't her son work as an unpaid runner in the broadcast industry? Wink

TalkinPeace2 · 09/12/2011 17:00

Not for long if HMRC get their way ....
www.guardian.co.uk/fashion/2011/dec/08/fashion-labels-warned-unpaid-interns?newsfeed=true
the media are next in the firing line
and the 'nayce' kids will be 'let go' rather than paid

Hey! Toby, have you got any Interns?

mottledcat · 09/12/2011 17:49

Xenia has been 'outed' several times over the years if anyone is remotely interested.

She has also mentioned the names of the universities her DC attended, hence me noting with horror pride they are the same ones that mine attended, and it has been in the context of how state schoolers aren't any good at debating/dressing nicely/speaking properly like wot her DC do :)

Perhaps Toby could introduce elocution lessons too (the unpaid interns could do it!!)

BoffinMum · 09/12/2011 18:16

My honorable friend Xenia does the equivalent online to going down the shops dressed in a bath towel and little else, in terms of privacy.

SpringHeeledJack · 09/12/2011 18:26

I think Xenia is Toby Young

or perhaps a troll performance artist

either way her naked self interest is no advert for private sector education

Xenia · 09/12/2011 18:59

See feminism visibility of women thread though.. women don't say enough how good they are. We need a million Xenias, not fewer and a heap more people who know when to use less and when to use fewer.

I only said where daughter 1 had gone to university when someone really pressed. I think that is getting a bit close to home - she left 5 years ago. I am not sure I've said about the others. I try to respect their privacy as I would hope we all do for each other.

if you want to a mumsnet event or drinks and met someone you would presumably not come back on here and say XYZ is named ABC in real life. I think the same should apply even if people join dots.

I can't remember how that starting salary came out but I don't have a fixed process that I want all the children to go through and become ABC and earn Y. I want them to learn a huge raft of things at school, enjoy the experience including even fields and lakes the schools might have and a range of hobbies, to see things done really well from the choirs to the sport and go forth in life with a range of skills even if they then seek to become buddhist monks or sleep on the roads outside St Paul's.

We borrow our children for a short time. They are only 50% our genes and only 50% of what they are is their environment.

I have been tremedously privileged to have all 5 of the children in my life. They are the best thing I have done and I continue to delight in them every day (it's particularly easy at the moment though as I've no toddlers or teenagers at the moment)...

On Children
 Kahlil Gibran

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.

(None of my sons work in the media industry)

mottledcat · 09/12/2011 19:59

I think if I met someone at a social occasion who had been, in the past, extraordinarily offensive and dismissive of people outside their perceived social/intellectual strata (regardless of them knowing the difference in the use of less v fewer), then I would probably ignore them and speak to someone more interesting.

I am glad you enjoy your children. Same here.

PollyParanoia · 09/12/2011 20:49

And why is the university they managed to get into less deserving of privacy than the school their parents chose for them to attend?
Apart from anything else, universities are far bigger than n London private schools so far less revealing.

PollyParanoia · 09/12/2011 20:50

Ps also have sneaking admiration mixed with horror towards Xenia even if have always thought she was a Craig Brown creation

Xenia · 09/12/2011 21:38

Do we really want just to talk about me? I know I'm very interesting, clever, pretty and important but even so I expect we could talk about something more interesting......

(Their schools were a long time ago. I haven't that often mentioned them and most people don't read this a lot and remember stuff about people posting - not that many collate random posts. They were at university more recently and probably were still at it when I first came on this site - that would be the reason)

I am very respectufl of all people I don't though like long conversations by people who are not quick and bright and who are dull or a bit thick. That doesn't mean I don't treat all people well or think they should be drowned at birth. It is all relative. I am sure there are people who think I am not that interesting or bright enough for them. I'm nothing special.

smallwhitecat · 09/12/2011 21:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

TalkinPeace2 · 09/12/2011 21:58

Xenia
Their schools were a long time ago
in which case WTF have you got to say of ANY relevance to ANYBODY undergoing the system at the moment.

or have your perfect kids knocked out spawn at 15?

Xenia · 09/12/2011 22:02

Their schools get the exam results they always got. I post on lots of topics. If it's about schools and it's relevant then I think it's terribly relevant for parents to realise there are some really really good selective girls day schools out there which don't cost a fortune and that it's worth succeeding in your career and paying fees for those schools. It's win win all round.

hester · 09/12/2011 22:15

Hey, I think people should back off Xenia. This is getting unpleasant. She may be controversial but she is always polite to other posters, and deserves the same in return.

TalkinPeace2 · 09/12/2011 22:49

Xenia
"don't cost a fortune"
the median annual salary in the UK is £17,500
how do the current fees for the schools your children compare with that
(taking into account that the average home in Hampshire now costs 14 times the average salary)

hester
I would back off Xenia if I had the slightest reassurance that her opinions were based on research any wider than mine at the age of 21.
Xenias views seem to have been undiluted by the world outside NW1
which scarily makes her David Cameron / Nick Clegg / Ian Duncan Smith / Michael Howard / David Milliband / Ed Miliband / Ed Balls etc etc