Worry about Maths sets and low confidence

[Solo2]

DTs aged 10, currently in Yr 6, are probably going to be demoted to the bottom of 4 maths sets. This is their 2nd demotion. They began last yr in the 2nd from the top group. Both are anxious about maths and I posted a while ago here about DT1 who was publicly humilated by the maths teacher and became less and less confident.

DTs were demoted to the 2nd from the bottom set during that yr. The maths teacher from that set was away sick and they had yet another teacher before the proper one returned. Overall, in 2 yrs, they'll have had 6 different maths teachers (staff turnover plus different sets) which hasn't helped.

The bottom maths set has only 14 children in it plus a p/t TA, which is far better numbers than the other groups. However, it's also got some challenging children in it. The teacher who runs it is known and liked by DTs but other parents say she's not v good at teaching maths. The T/A is also known and v liked by DTs and is great at teaching maths and actually used to do private tuition in maths for DTs before they started this school.

The alternative to being put down to the bottom group is to keep them in the current group, as the teacher there retires at Xmas and a new - and unknown - teacher is starting at the school then. But I assume this teacher will take time to find her feet and has also just come off maternity leave. Remembering myself after maternity leave and the frame of mind I was in (which may not at all be her frame of mind), I'm worried that in the final 2 terms my twins have at this school, they won't be best helped to improve in maths.

So I'm inclined to hope that the school puts them in the other group. At least I know the staff there and the group is small (although that too may change after Xmas). However, DTs will be devastated that yet again they've been demoted and this time to the bottom set of all. All their friends, by coincidence, as real maths geeks (in the best possible sense) and are in the top set and getting 100% in the recent exam (which was at age 13+ level although these are 10 to 11 yr olds. So it's not that DTs are abysmmal at maths - just that in comparison with their peers who are well able to do matsh above and beyond the usual yr 6 level, they struggle).

The school will decide what's best for DTs but should I push for the bottom set - with good staff/student ratio but troublesome children there and reduction in DTs self esteem - or should i push for keeping them in their current set and hope the new teacher will be an absolute whizz at helping children with maths?

These are your previous children and you want the best for them but you are over thinking it. Font push for anything, you do t k ow all the factors. Let it happen and then evaluate. If you have concerns then deal with them. If you push now and it turns out to be wrong you will have burnt your boats as you can't then push for the opposite whereas in a few months time you could push if you leave it now.

Msistooaddictive - thanks for your response. the difficulty is that once the school make the decision, then that's how it'll stay till DTs finish at this part of the school. They only have 2 terms left and they'd be in that current maths set for that time, whichever they end up. What do other's think about the pros and cons of further demotion?

There are too many unknowns to make a decision. Let it happen, if you keep going like this you will end up stressed out by the time they leave school. It's year 6 and secondary schools will reteach it all anyway.

Do you know what their current levels are?

I ask this as DD1 was in the bottom set of four for maths in her primary school and achieved 4a at the end of year 6 which, although not stunning, is still above the national expected level.

She was in a stunningly bright year and had she been in another school cohort, would have actually been in set 2. I expalined this to her many times and went some way to bolstering up the feelings of inadequacy.

I don't know what level they are, only that the school works 2 or 3 yrs ahead of the national curriculum level and that there are already children in their yr who have been in national maths competitions and come near the top.

It's very well known as a v academic school particularly for maths and sciences. I would expect they'd be near the top in an ordinary school but the thing it, this is the system within which they're likely to remain. I would like them to 'hold their own' rather than be dropping back and instead, they're going downhill.

I suspect there are a combination of reasons - the staff turnover, the unusually bright competition of peers, the fact that neither was born with the particular ability and interest in maths that some children have, the fact that they're anxious about maths - possibly because of the kind of teachers they've had recently - and the fact that I'm their only parent and I'm v v anxious about maths and not v good at all at it and can barely do their homework myself already!

I do tell them that in another type of school they'd probably be near the top but given they're in this closed world of their known peers, this doesn't have much impact on them. I'm not expecting them to be in the top lot of their peers here - but I would like to see them sustaining their level or slightly improving - not dropping back.

Why don't you employ a maths tutor at home for the two of them? One hour a week of tutoring plus 3 x 20 minutes homework supervised by you should help them a lot.

Thanks Bonsoir. Yes, I'll probably have to do that, especially as they don't seme at all responsive when I try to help them myself. They used to have a tutor but she now works as the TA in the bottom group so isn't allowed to tutor children who go to that school and also her personal circumstances have changed so she can't be available. It's v hard to find exactly the right person for them and also the added expense is difficult as I'm struggling to pay the school fees as it is.

The other difficulty is that they already get one hr homework each night and this plus music practice (and then a one hr dog walk!!) gives them little time left over for more homework too. I'm also making supper, supervising HW, music practice, dog walking etc from the time we're back from school till bedtime more or less. So I need to find a way of making extra maths help possible.

Post parents' evening meeting, their current maths teacher wasn't thinking of moving them down a set but re-jigging all the groups and if things go according to his plan, they'd have the new teacher who's just back from maternity leave and will have a long commute (plus presumably a baby being cared for elsewhere that distracts her attention). If the Head of Studies goes with her opinion, they'll be moved down a set to the one she runs with the TA.

I'll have to leave it and see how it pans out now. I saw their maths papers and some of the maths they COULD do would have been beyond me and the ones they couldn't do were WELL beyond me!!

To be very honest, I find that after school is a dreadful time for tutors. DD has a tutor at lunch time (she has a 1h30 lunch break) and the DSSs have a tutor for an hour each on Saturday morning. A friend of mine even has a tutor for her two children from 5pm until 7pm on Sunday and says it's great - the children are rested and receptive at that time (and Sunday late afternoon can be a bit dead).