So how many prep schools actually do SATS?

[Auroborea]

In light of the recent Times 'best' schools guide, and, in particular, their list of 'top' 150 prep schools, it would be interesting to know whether it's a list out of potential, say, 300 or 200 or 150? (I have no idea, so just pulling numbers out of the air!) I'm aware of some of the wider criticisms of league tables in general and the Times ones in particular, but, putting that aside for a moment, how big a population are we talking about?

What answer are you looking for?

I think I would like some sort of idea as to how hard/easy it is for a prep school that does SATS to get into that top 150 list. I would also like some sort of idea as to how many prep schools don't do SATS - how common it is. I have no personal experience of SATS, so I don't have a firm view as to whether I like the idea of them or not.

No idea what list you are talking about. Can you provide a link?

Prep schools do, amazingly, assess their pupils regularly throughout their schooling.

The type of prep school (what they are preparing for) most likely governs their end of school assessments. If the pupils are heading for other independent schools, they will use 11+/CE papers (either provided by ISEB or the actual senior schools). If they are prepping for grammer schools, they may or may not use SATs papers. Schools that expect their Year 6s to stay into Senior School may well use SATS papers for their own internal tracking purposes.

There are two ways of using SATs papers - to have then externally marked, or to do the marking in-house. Only externally marked papers can lead to league table positions.

What I do for my Year 6s is give them a SATs paper and mark it myself. I can then make sure I know where my students are on a national scale. I have no interest in publishing this data (it generally outranks their inherent ability though). I have to produce an exam paper for the end-of-year exam, and having one that has been put together with much research and validated by thousands of children and markers is manna from heaven for me. My English and Maths colleagues use NFER papers in a similar way.

We also do PIPS twice a year to track progress throughout the prep school.

I saw that chart. dc prep school haven't done SATS for over 5 years and I'm not sure any of the local ones do, so obviously would not appear on that list now if they ever qualified to be. There are around 600 member schools of IAPS(mostly in UK) but a number of those on the Times list probably aren't (ie junior schools rather than Prep schools and ISC claims 1200+ members but many of those will be secondary schools.

I saw the list too - there are no Prep schools around me (East Anglia) who do SATs officially (other than as part of internal termly assessments).

Thank you for your replies. MTG, the link is www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/Parent_Power/ , you need to be subscribed to the Times to see the guide though.
Interesting regarding the internal/external use of SATs. Some of our local prep schools are in that list but not others, which is what made me wonder. I don't suppose anybody knows any statistics regarding how many prep schools actually use SATs externally? Or the proportion of those using SATs externally to those that don't?

Ds's school apparently do some form of SATs that is through Durham University. We had no idea they did anything like that until one of the year teachers gave her class parents the results at parents' evening and made critical comments about those who hadn't got sufficiently good marks. I had to practically beg ds's teacher for the results which, apparently, bore no reflection on his ability as he had refused to do all of the tests!

Oh, and we are not really a grammar area (Guildford), although we do have some great state schools so I think there is a fair degree of movement between the sectors.

Those would be PIPS or CATS MollieO (dc school do both but in alternate years)

According to the following website, less than a third of UK prep schools do SATS and publish the results so, as they say, league tables based on SAT results are meaningless.

www.best-schools.co.uk/league-tables/prep-schools.aspx

This is what they say and I have to agree:

"We have withdrawn our table of top preparatory independent schools. The data we had was based on Key Stage 2 tests, but schools are not obligated to publish these results. Thus, our table ended up listing results based on less than one third of the UK prep schools, thereby making it totally lacking in credibility. Several, national newspapers still publish these results without informing you that the majority of the data is missing. We have taken the decision that the data is so misleading , we should not publish it.

In our opinion the way to judge preparatory schools is the application of a number of checks including (a) leaver destinations (ie senior school placements) , (b) school teaching facilities, (c) personal references from parents and (d) inspection reports."

HTH

I'll take your word for it LIZS. Ds's teacher flashed a booklet at me and said 'ds couldn't be bothered to do most of this'

Ah, thank you, WC, that certainly sheds some light on the issue!

Sorry, WinlessChunder, just realized it wasn't the most flattering abbreviation of your nickname!

Durham University is the CEM Centre - Pips, Midyis etc. Most independent schools subscribe to these baseline tests, IME.

DD2's school stopped doing them. They came top of the table every year but it was too much bother to review the material as they had covered it in yrs 4 and 5. DD1's school did them in yr 5 as a benchmark for the external 11+ candidates - she got all 5's. DS's did them for internal purposes (practice in exam technique)and all the boys got 5's. Not very challenging.

DCs school doesn't do them, it is one of the reasons I pulled mine out of the state sector. It always amazes me how many threads there are on SATs on here because actually I think they restrict the curriculum, restrict learning and actually aren't that difficult. The fact that they aren't used when pupils transfer to senior school is very telling imo.

I wouldn't expect that many schools to be doing them.

There are certain groups of schools who deliberately do them eg GDST, hence girls preps might be over represented. Of the 7 or so local prep schools, only 2 do them.

I don't teach to SATs at all. I have my own scheme based loosely on Common Entrance material. They do the SATs paper as an end-of-year exam with no specific preparation or even revision, and the majority of my students are level 5. Even my year 5s get level 5s.

I was shocked when my one child who did all her primary schooling in the state sector spending the whole of Year 6 on SATs practice, especially having reached 5a sometime near the beginning of Year 5. I removed all of my children from the state sector shortly afterwards, and then watched them flourish.

Thank you, all, your replies have given me more of a perspective for interpreting the tables.