To ask for your help in deciding on a village school V a larger school? Hellllppp!

[runningwilde]

aibu to be in such a dilemma about this?!

My dc will be going to school next September, at the moment I am really really torn between a village school (about a ten minute drive away) that is really great and has a lovely feel (ofsted report is outstanding) and my local primary school that is also a fantastic school (ofsted good with outstanding areas). The village school will take 8 this year and the larger school
Will take 60 so there is a big difference in numbers per class. The local
School tends to have mixed aged classes but a lot of 1 to 1 attention but it does lack in certain facilities you would get in the larger school
(playing fields, sports, etc).

I am driving myself potty going back and forth with which one to go with. Can anyone help me? Both schools have excellent headmistresses and teachers. My ds is a confident and outgoing little boy who would be fine in a big or small environment, but which one do I go for? Which is best?! Any advice/experience on this would be most welcome.

Thank you.

There are two classes in the small school

• 3 years in one class etc. My boy goes to a a nursery about ten mins away from me so he doesnt really have friends that will gp to either school yet. That doesn't worry me.

The report for the smaller school is outstanding on everything, the school is highly praised for its standard of learning and the ofsted report noted this time and time again.

The larger school has a rating of good and whilst the learning is 'good' they said it needs to improve.

Hi POL!
I was hoping you would post!
I have spoken to many parents and all positive and they say great things about both!

Arghh! I am going mad! What to do?!

I wouldn't read to much into the ofsted, use it as guidance but dont use it to make your decision.

Speaking to parents is good, visit both schools during the day and get a feel for the atmosphere in the school. Have a list of questions specific to your son/your family and see how they deal with them.

Done all that sirzy, still no clearer!

And, even if I go for the village school, it's not guaranteed that I will get in, whereas my local larger school (which is really popular) is more likely as it's on my housing estate.

This is a pet subject of mine

Local school was under threat of closure (has been a few times over the years) and may not have even opened after the last Summer term...obviously was saved and numbers are up (biggest P1 group in years...9)

Do you have to apply early for the school of your choice? If DC's friends are not a factor then I would say that all things being equal you should chose the school that fits into your life best - school-run simplicity etc

My twins go to a small village school which had 5 - 10 kids per year group split between 4 mixed classes when we applied. Now they are up to capacity of 15 in each year group and after 4 years I desperately wish we could take them out for the following reasons:
1)what matters is class size, not numbers in each year group - there is only 1 teacher in each class and now there are large classes to deal with and no TAs due to no money. It is clear that the lessons are not being properly differentiated so there is repetition from one year to the next where little ones are taught what the older ones learned last year
2)resources and facilities are a big problem - for trips, afterschool clubs, even staffing when a teacher is off sick it is a major catastrophe. this week the HT has been teaching and acting as secretary because there is just nobody else
3) socially there are issues as there is obv such a smaller pool of children to choose your friends from and when some kids don't get on it is very hard to keep them apart
4) remember that small schools can grow very quickly - ask yourself if you would still be so keen if it doubled in size, which is what happened to us
As it happens, although it is a village school hardly anyone that goes there is from the village, everyone drives, and it doesn't matter at all I don't think.

I have my children in a school which has a 3x30 entry - and it feels like a very small school. The way that the school is managed is brilliant - the older ones seem to look after the little ones really well. So just because it's bigger, doesn't necessarily mean that it feels bewildering. Also, I have no worries about mine starting secondary school and being overwhelmed - they will be used to mayhem and large classes!

There are so many clubs, and also breakfast and after school facilities, which may not be available in a smaller school? A friend of mine pulled her DD out of a private school with only 8 in a class - she said it was too small and the cliques amongst the parents were almost as bad as the children - in a larger intake there is a a greater dilution, but with fewer than 10 children, they HAVE to get on and it can be an issue if they don't. She also said that it made sports difficult, so there were fewer opportunities than in a larger school.

I moved my son from a school with mixed year classes - he's very bright and the younger ones were being put with the older ones who were supposed to 'teach'/'help' them with their learning. When I queried how the clever/older/brighter children were supposed to learn, the HT told me that the 'clever ones teach themselves'. Really?! (That's obviously a different issue - but I didn't like the thought of mixed year group being taught together.

Good luck with the decision!

dds have been to a 60 per year suburban school and a village school with 60 kids total. On balance I think they get (got in dd1's case - she has just left for secondary) something more rounded and more individual at the smaller school. advantages (some of which might not apply in your particular case)

• the teachers get the chance to know the children really well
• teaching in multiple year groups - I think this is a real plus - teachers are used to teaching mixed abilities - they are good at being creative and they have to be flexible - and this is great for individual kids - especially ones who aren't average - teaching is more tailored to individual needs
• general flexibility - ime (which might not be representative) the school has a more flexible/pragmatic approach - a kid who can't do PE can just join in with another class
• friendships across years - these are much more prevalent and I think it's very good for them. the older kids dote on the receptions - they look out for them, play with them.
• strong community - this could be different as you don't live in the village - but for us, as new-comers to the village we felt that we wanted to be part of the wider village community.
• small class sizes - we have an average of about 12 kids per year - which generally gives class sizes of about 24. but some years - and therefore classes - are smaller

disadvantages

• as people have pointed out no escape from difficult "friendships"
• fewer after school clubs - this is inevitable as there are fewer staff to run them and fewer children to attend - but our school does a good job of rotating/alternating different clubs from term to term - we have had cookery, recorder, guitar, gardening
• sport - not enough kids to form teams - this often means mixed teams which isn't always great as it can really turn some girls off sport. the flip side is that - depending on the area - there is more of an effort to bring similar schools together - dd has just played in a tag rugby tournament today with 7 other similar-sized schools.

I don't think transition to secondary is a particular issue - I think that depends a bit on particular circumstances - where they would go to secondary, where their friends would go, the nature of the in-take - dd's school for example, is fed almost entirely by small primaries - so although it's a big change it's the same for all the kids - it's not like there are a handful of kids from the village school and then a great mass of kids who all know each other.

My kids go to a village school - 10 to 15 in each year group and split classes. I think it is the best move we could have made and we have sacrificed a LOT to live in a village believe you me!

The kids generally care and look after each-other and continue to do so into secondary level. The teachers know the children really well and they get tons of support if it is needed without having to put special measures in place.

Negative aspects are yes, the friendship group is smaller but I tend to think children ultimately make friends with a smaller group and usually stick to this group in any case. If you get a 'bad' teacher there is no escape

But for us - the plus points definitely outweigh being at a larger school and ultimately it just suits my children to go to a smaller school and they have gained hugely in confidence from it so far

looking at other posts I think it goes to show that it's very hard to generalise. but I do have sympathy with elinorbellowed's sentiment - I think being in the nearest school does help with a feeling of community - and that's really important

thanks again everyone
Gosh, this is getting harder, not easier!
The reason I have such a dilemma is that the standard of learning in the village school is highly praised and classed as outstanding in the reports and I think that this is the most important thing? But I do wonder how great can it be when there are 3/4 different years in each class?

The one closest to me is the larger school. The other school is one of the best in my town.

I'll shut up in a minute ... just thought of anotehr point - I have one very shy dd and one very gregarious one. the shy one came along fantastically at the small school and in the end of year school play she sang a solo - I was amazed and very proud. When I told her so she said "well it's much easier to do stuff like that here - I know everyone". I think it's given her confidence she can build on in her huge (240/year) secondary. dd2 - the outgoing one - loves it too. she often says how much she likes knowing everyone. she said to me yesterday "why would anyone not want to live in a village"

To provide a counter argument to one point made by hatwoman.

If a class on 30 has children who in age range from 7-11 this wont represent the ability of the pupils. I would be feasible to have a 7 year old who is working at the level of your average 5 year old and an 11 year old working at the level of your average 13 year old. That can make it very hard for a teacher to plan a lesson which is inclusive and differentiated for both extremes and everything inbetween.

Of course some schools deal with this better than others but it would put me off a smaller school personally.

The bigger school. It is nearer and it has a much bigger friendship pool and they have far more opportunities.
I went to a little village school and while I loved it it was difficult to make the switch at 11yrs. I was also aware of what I had missed, e.g. I wanted to join the choir and first they took those who had been in their junior school choir. We didn't have a choir and I had to have an audition, after they others had got a place. There were lots of things like that, lack of team games etc.

Is the village school just an infant school or does it go all the way through? Do you have younger children who would need to join, and therefore may be in the same class in the smaller school - and in your opinion would this be good or bad?

My DS is at the Village School and he is thriving!

i have a v.similar situation but our small village school does mixed year groups so class sizes of 30. it is outstanding and does all the extra curricular stuff the bigger school does.

ds can be shy and quiet but has settled so well in a fairly big nursery and seems more confident than other kids i can't work out whether i big or small school would suit him. i worry more about how a small village school would prepare him for a big secondary but the kids seem to go to really good secondary schools so it doesn't seem to be an issue.

I work in a smallish village school (90 children- primary) but my dd goes to a very big school in the city in which we live. I LOVE the school where I work. We are able to give alot of one to one attention, we have a much more informal feel than bigger schools, a really wonderful sense of community and a true culture of celebrating difference.

On the other hand dds school is lively, has huge scope for making new friends (important especially when children fall out etc) and fabulous resources. I would not send my dd to a very small school -and cohorts of 8 mean a very small school. I think it is too limiting.

I went to a very small primary, there was 12 of us in my year and that was considered a big year. A couple of years before there had been 4 in a year. I hated it for many reasons, as such I am very glad my DD is in what I would call a 'normal' size school.

I think looking back, the main thing that didn't work (for me anyway) was the fact that there were only ever 2 full time teachers, once an opinion was formed about a child there was no-one to challenge it. However, DD will come into contact with so many more people, if she doesn't get on so well with a particular teacher (or group of children) she probably won't have to spend her whole week with them.

For me the shock of secondary school was something else, I just wasn't prepared for it at all, another reason I'm glad DD is in a bigger school.

Small schools a great when they work and everybody gets on etc, they are (IMO) hell when you don't fit in though.

I'm not trying to make your decision even more difficult but please dont over obsess about OFSTED reports when both are good. Clearly if one has a poor report then it is different but seriously the difference between "good" and "outstanding" is not that great. Just because OFSTED say a school is outstanding, doesn't mean you will!

Go on instinct, how do the staff make you feel when you visit? Do you think the atmosphere is one that will suit your DC? To me things like this are much more important than the details in the OFSTED report, lets face it the teachers may have even changed since the report was written.

Also, teaching several year groups in one class is a nightmare. 2 year groups is absolutely fine but beyond that it is impossible to straddle the needs of all the children.

We faced a similar dilemma 8 years ago when we moved from a big city to the countryside. The village school is 5 mins drive (you cant walk due to no pavements and twisty roads with blind bends) and a lovely church school 20 mins away. when we looked into it the village school had 2 classes only of mixed ages 4 - 7 and 7 - 11. as i have 3 kids it would have meant the middle one always being with one of her siblings - not ideal. also they had a fab report for the first class but it went dramatically downhill for the second. i found out that this was because with only 3 teachers the 10 and 11 year olds spent a significant amount of their time "helping" the younger ones. it does teach other skills but academically would have been a disaster. go in and watch an old age class at work and really look into things like the schools value added. at the end of the day if you do pick the wrong one it shouldnt be a disaster as you can always try and move.

Thanks again you lovely people! It's getting harder! Lol...

I suppose, really, the difference in learning won't be that great if they are both good. Looking long term, maybe the bigger school will be better as it has more facilities but I do love the values of the samll school. Both have a strog Christian ethos, which is important to me, and both term themselves as a family school - one is just a lot bigger!

Oh bugger! They are both just so good!

Having moved a year ago DD went from a large primary with 60 in the year group, school run by car, she now attends my old village school just over the road. When she started there were 22 in the class now there are 30 but it is a great school, it's where I went! A lot of the children in dds class come from out of the area (very popular school) and that makes it much harder for the children to socialise after school / parties / after school clubs etc Some of the parents are on the road all the time - especially when they have more than one child at the school. For me being able to walk to school makes life a great deal easier!
There is another thred running about a small school with funding problems.