DD (6yo) is working at a level way below average.

[MrsStig]

I was aware her reading isn't brilliant (I was a late reader...my mother took me took an ed psych who found a reason, and I caught up..by the time I was 9 I have a reading age of 14).

Her spelling is shocking. He has difficulty hearing all the sounds in words, but we are working on it, and I have faith she won't leave primary school illiterate.

Her writing isn't great, but I have been working on her fine motor skills since I realised they were poor 2.5 years ago, and she has improved a lot.

But I had always thought her maths was pretty much OK. It certainly was when she was in pre-school ( I work in early years) And seemed pretty much on track in reception. Her reception teacher seemed to think she would catch up in literacy and told me not to worry about her as she would get all 3's in her SATs in Y2. (This is now looking extremely unlikely)

I've recently realised her maths is way below average. 18 months ago she wasn't struggling, but she seems not only to have made no progress, but to have regressed. Simple concepts like how many 10p coins, and which other coins does she need to make 21p are a huge challenge for her.

I am totally bemused by this. Her class teacher this year has moved her up into the middle group partly because DD nagged her to, and partly because DD is as so able verbally. If you met her and had a chat with her, you certainly wouldn't think she would be in the bottom sets at school.

Any one know what's going on here? Is it because we are a talkative family, and with two older siblings she's picked up a decent vocabulary? We're not a particularly maths orientated family....which I realised when we were ordering a cooked breakfast recently with friends and someone asked DS how many different combinations of bacon/egg/beans etc it was possible to order. We never do things like that with the DC, but my older DC seemed to have muddled through and ended up near the top of the class.

Feel free to tell me DD is just thick. Which is fine, except she wasn't before.

If you got this far thank you!

What levels is she working at? Is her teacher concerned?

Have you checked her hearing and eyesight? We weren't aware of my dd glue ear until she was 6.

Her hearing and eyes are fine. Even if they weren't that wouldn't be any excuse for not being able to count in 2, etc.

Her teacher, like me, is bemused that she seems to be unable to do simple things.

Her reading is level 1a, but parents evening was so short (a strict 5 mins) that I didn't have a chance to ask about maths.

Ds began to have problems at just this stage: he too seemed much brighter than his work suggested. We took him to an ed psych and found that he is dyspraxic and has auditory processing difficulties. He (at 10) still struggles with times tables and cannot spell; but he came top of his year in English comprehension and has been reading "1984". There are things in your description of your DD which ring a bell: I'd take her to an ed. psych.

Thank you, vixsatis.

Dyspraxic (all be it mild) and has auditory processing difficulties - I think that's what's going on here.

I don't think I can afford an ed psych. But out of interest where did you find one, and what did you ask for, and what did they do?

Is she a summer baby?

Yes, end of July.

There's been loads of stuff in the news recently about the impact of this on children's whole lives. Interestingly handwriting and maths particularly stand out. Summer babies often have appalling hand writing because their fine motor skills are much less developed than their peers when they're first learning letter formation.

Her teachers and she will be comparing her performance to that of her peers and as a result take a blow to her self-esteem which further compounds the discrepancy and may put her off learning.

Apparently age 7 is a particularly unhappy year for summer born children for all these reasons.

It's exactly what's happening to one of my summer born children at the moment. She was really bright and happy in nursery and reception and is no considered 'immature'. She IS immature because she's 7 but also because she's nearly a year younger than the oldest in her class!! It's having a major influence on her confidence and putting her off learning.

I'm not saying this is the case with all summer babies (I have another who is excelling) but it's very well documented and can have a life long effect.

Here www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/nov/01/august-babies-top-universities-study

It's interesting that summer babies are more likely to be diagnosed with a SN (because they're compared to children 12 months older than them).

It's really bad that it's not better recognized.

If you only got 5 mins why don't you make a seperate appointment with the teacher to discuss maths in detail, and for her to give you guidance for things to do at home. Then if your DD does have specific problems, you can help her keep on top of them. Is she Year1 or 2?

'Children born in August are 20% more likely to study for a vocational qualification than their classmates born in September
? Compared to babies born in September, those born in August exhibit lower socio-emotional development are 2.5 times more likely to report being always unhappy at school
? Those born at the end of the academic year are more likely to have lower confidence in their academic ability and less likely to believe in the power to control their own destiny'

And this

'The first line of the [MSC] table says that children born in September score, on average, 0.356 standard deviations (i.e. above average), while children born in August score, on average, -0.461 standard deviations (i.e. below average); children born in August thus score 0.817 standard deviations lower than children born in September.

? The fifth line of the [MSC] table says that teachers rate 13.9% of children born in September as below average, while they rate 30% of children born in August as below average; this means that teachers are 16.1 percentage points more likely to rate August-born children as below average.'

Sorry to suggest this, but could it be that the teaching is at fault, ie she is not being taught very well? Or that there is disruption in the class? It seems odd to me that she was doing well until 18 months ago and now this.

My children's abilities vary hugely and we have had to step in with all of them as the school they attend has some pockets of poor teaching, which seemed to affect all children negatively, even the most able experiencing things like total regression where subjects had not been covered for a long time.

Thank you, fivecandles! A lot for me to consider there.

Yes it did cross my mind that the teaching was poor last year. The teacher she was supposed to have didn't start in September due to ill health, so the class had a supply teacher, who ended up staying for the full year. She seemed absolutely lovely, had good control of the class and the children were very happy. This teacher was very keen on learning through play for the majority of the year, which was fine by me. There are some bright September borns in the class, and they seem to doing extremely well. Having seen their work on display I was . So some children at last, have obviously been taught very well.

MrsStig

Auditory Processing Disorder (APD) is a listening disability, which is one of the underlying causes of the dyslexic symptom. APD can be diagnosed on the NHS, via a GP referral currently to Great Ormond Street Hospital, hopefully soon there will be more regional diagnostic and assessment centres.
APD is about having problems processing all that you hear, including speech, which can cause problems following conversations, following multiple verbal instructions.
Those who have APD have problems processing the gaps between sounds, the sounds that can make up a word, and the gaps between words in rapid speech. Which means, that those who have APD learn new words by learning the whole sound of a word, which in turn means that those who have APD are not able phonetically sound out new words from text, nor use Phonics.

You don't have to pay for an ED psychologist your self. The school
can refer her. Talk to her teacher again and also the SENCO. DD3 is Dyspraxic and she didn't get reading until she was 10. She's now 19 and at college doing BTECH. National Diploma in I T. Yes she's a couple of years behind other 19 year olds but she's getting there.

MrsStig, hth but my son was similar (also summer born). He started Yr2 at 1b for maths and reading and I think just 1c for writing, but zoomed to 2a's across the board by summer term, with the teacher saying he was borderline 3's.

So if the teacher doesn't think there's a problem, then maybe give it a little while. Lots seem to take huge leaps in Yr2. Hope your DD's one of them.

I'd pressure the school as mumeee suggests to get her referred - they'll want her to do well, for her own sake, the teacher's and the school's. But you may need to keep up the pressur. Because DS was/is articulate and because it is quite difficult still to diagnose at 7/8 (usually the earliest - although i knew from the age of 4 that there was something adrift) we were still being told he was stupid or idle at the age of 10. His secondary school spotted dyslexia (with APD etc) immediately. As soon as they did that, he started working better and felt much better about himself; we could take appropriate action which meant I was able to relax more.