IS German the 'best' MFL for a mild dyslexic??

[ProperLush]

Because 2 people at work told me so yesterday!

DS2 is in Y6 and gets the 'opportunity' to state a preference for which MFL he will study in Y7 in secondary. These dictate which tutor group you go into as well. The options are French (5 classes), Spanish (3) and German (2).

He has 'done' some French in primary but it has been cursory and badly taught and has caused him to say he doesn't want to do it in Secondary.

DS2 isn't very academic and I strongly suspect has dyslexic tendencies but I cannot get the otherwise 'good' primary school interested in a proper test and cannot afford the £400 needed privately. He does do English with a private tutor as otherwise he may not 'pass' his KS2 SAT in it.

He, in his sweet innocence, decided he wanted to do German 'because it's different'. DH and I looked at each other in horror! (Though the German teacher at the Open Day at the secondary was delighted...)

Briefly: I have an 'O' level in French though I am no linguist; I can speak a bit of colloquial German having au paired there for 8 months at 17. I know no Spanish.
DH did German at school but claims to remember nothing; he is apparently quite good at (South American) Spanish having undergone a crash course and 4 months there. He knows no French.

DS1 (Y8) does Spanish in secondary and is reasonably clever.

The ishoo is DH has no patience so I could imagine the ructions that would ensue if DH was called upon to 'help' DS2 with Spanish; I could help with French, but I'm not sure either of us would be much use with German! I am more than prepared to try but I suspect my 'help' energy will be better utilised towards getting something down in English and Maths, not a MFL as I actually doubt he'd pass a GCSE in it (school is big on it, however!).

I had 'dismissed' German (I know some will say 'But it's his 'choice''- to which I'd say 'Yes, but it's MY sanity!' and I am a grown up who knows that MFL for the non-linguist is difficult) but in discussing this at work, 2 women said that they felt German might suit DS2 better due to its 'logic' and being 'more like English'!

What do you think?

I have no idea about German, but Spanish is basically phonetic which is helpful for a dyslexic learner. Also, and much more importantly, think of all the fab places he could visit if he learned Spanish - Mexico, Guatamala, Costa Rica, Spain, Chile etc..... Think of the food. Think of flamenco. The beaches.....

Dyslexic DS2 Did German and Latin and found both much easier and more logical than English! German spelling is, in my opinion (I'm also Dyslexic) far easier than English.

I'm not sure about the dyslexia angle, but when both my DSs were choosing Standard Grade options for S2, they got the choice of German (which they'd been studying for one year) of French (which they'd been studying for 6 years, since primary).

I thought they'd be better to take French, because they'd done so much more already, but they both took German and love it (and can understand it!). The classes have more boys than girls (the French classes are the opposite), so I think that it is a language that boys find easier - it's more logical (apparently) and according to DS2 "you don't feel as much of a tit speaking German as you do French".

Q: "you don't feel as much of a tit speaking German as you do French".

love it!

Actually, a thing that I was intrigued and interested to note is how DS1, Y8 who is shy and self-conscious really gets into his Spanish pronunciation! We were never that courageous in my girls grammar school French classes! Wonder if it's taught better now? Or if they're 'forced' to 'do it properly' so have to?

MrNC is severely dyslexic (couldn't read until 12) and the only language he can speak a few phrases in well enough to be understood is German. If he tries French or Spanish people immediately interrupt in English just to shut him up!

German is phonetic and if pronounced with a strong English accent simply sounds north German (or at least comprehensible). There's only 3 tenses, not that many irregular verbs and most have a pattern to them, and while cases and adjective endings need learning there is a logic to it.
And it provides access to lots of great rock music and board games.

At his age I'd guess that whatever language he actually wants to do is likely to be the best one, but there's a good case for German. It certainly sounds less 'twee' than how French and Spanish teachers often sound (not sure why as real French people and Spaniards don't!)

I would recommend German for a dyslexic (or suspected dyslexic). German is far more consistent in the connection between spelling and sound - if you see 'ei' together you can be pretty certain it will be pronounced as the English 'I'. However, those two letters the other way around 'ie' are generally spoken as 'eee', so a dyslexic would have to be careful with the word order. Interestingly, when Germans make spelling mistakes it is normally because of a deviation from the general rule, because they have learned that words can be spoken as they are written. The most common mistake Germans make is spelling 'Mahl' (meal) as 'mal' (time) because the h is silent - English speakers are actually much better at dealing with this kind of inconsistency.
One other advantage is that compound words are pretty logical and easy to put together (and spell). Don't be put off by the fact that the words are so long - they're often composed of shorter units which are a lot easier to understand than the Latinate English words. One example: hibernation in German is Winterschlaf, which literally means wintersleep, so if you know those two basic words you can spell the whole thing.
I think the major problem for learning German as a beginner is that the grammar is just horrible at the start. Merely coming out with a grammatically correct sentence is a major challenge. Take the sentence:
Einmal im Jahr gehen wir mit der ganzen Schule ins Kino (Once a year we go to the cinema with the whole school).
You need to know that 'im Jahr' takes the dative, that you have to reverse 'wir gehen' to ensure the verb keeps second place in the sentence, then the right preposition for going to the cinema, and that you use the accusative 'ins Kino' as opposed to the dative 'im Kino', then that 'mit' takes the dative hence 'der' not 'die, then the correct ending for 'ganz' after a dative form.
If your son wouldn't get too frustrated with that level of nit-picking then German might be the right subject for him.

I've got a dyslexic DS very bright but a slow reader/writer dreadful speller he has done French since yr 3 and Latin since year 4 we talking 5 lessons a week. He had to choose a third language when he started at his new school in yr 8. We'd heard Spanish was best for dyslexics but after posting on MM for advise he choose German. He absolutely loves it and is one of the top in the class he finds it so easy I believe doing Latin ready has helped because he is used to learning lots of grammar. His French in comparison remains weaker and he struggles with the pronouciation and the spelling.

I am a linguist and would recommend German as it is definitely more logical. The grammatical rules are more consistent than English and it is easier to pronounce than French. Once you learn the rules, it is easy IMO.

Spanish has regular spelling too - once you've learned the conventions, you're away. And no cases to wrestle with (though I found most of German cases were easily learned by rote learning: der die das die, den die das die...etc).

But the clincher for me would be the sheer number of places where Spanish is useful, compared to 'Germany and Austria'.

Could you download a starter lesson for each, sit with him and do them, and see which he prefers?

All three of mine are very mildly dyslexic, DH is straight down the line dyslexic. All happily learned Dutch (we were living there) and never struggled with the spelling as it is phonetic.

Now I know Dutch wont be available but there are strong similarities with German so on that basis I would choose German.

The favourite argument for not learning German is "who speaks German only the Germans" but Germany is the strongest and most influential economy in Western Europe and one of the top economies in the world. Not only are they again challenging london pre eminence in the financial sector they unlike many others still believe in manufacturing and old fashioned apprenticeships. Learn German!

Germany is a strong economic force, but they have excellent English teaching as standard!

Thanks everyone for the input. I have learned a lot.

The only thing I would say is that DS2 wouldn't be learning a MFL for any reason(s) other than to

a) further his 'knowledge' of English, iykwim: actually seeing how a language works, and
b) to get his Eng Bacc.

I seriously can't ever imagine him being able to speak any of them well enough for it to impact on his choice of future direction!

The other thing to remember (if he does German) is that you'll find you know more than you think you do. It's still there in your brain. I wouldn't worry about being able to help him, it will come back in dribs and drabs.

Thanks! I must say that, interestingly, I can read a passage in German out loud very convincingly and not know what it says but I do 'get' how words, as written down, are supposed to sound.

The other thing is, my German was Bayerische, so I probably sound like an Alpine goat-herder ordering bier!

ProperLush - who knows where your DS may go!

For the first 10 years of my career I went nowhere outside of Britain. For the second 10 years I went nowhere in Britain but travelled to many countries. Being able to speak even a litle bit of a few of languages was very helpful.

I'd agree but I do think that realistically, he's never likely to be able to 'use' a MFL! I am keen and happy that he gets the chance to have a go at school, though, and will encourage all teh way.

I am slightly daunted at me having to 'learn' German if I am going to be able to help him, though!

I think German suits the dyslexic mind tbh...it has rules that can be learnt much more easily than other languages IMO

I will encouraging my dyslexic ds1 to do German when the time comes!

Ds (y10) who is very dyslexic finds it much easier than French so is doing it for GCSE. Sadly I can't help as I can't speak it.

I'm not sure you need to speak a language to help. I helped my DS learn his Latin vocab I tested him on pages and pages of it I haven't got the faintest idea what the words meant but went over 1st and 2 nd declensions or something similar he did really well in his entrance exam me I didn't remember a word of it!

DS pretty dyslexic. Struggles with French but found Mandarin (!) better and spanish has been like falling off a log. Incentives include the idea of eventualy being able to attend a Real Madrid, Sevilla, etc match (Barca unfortunately catalan).

Spanish would be the easiest I should think. If he has trouble with spelling, he might struggle with the look of the longer compound words in German. English might be a bit more like German in terms of how the language works but in terms of vocabulary beyondthe basic words - kochen, backen, Haus, Man, Frau etc possibly Spanish is closer.

Another vote for Spanish (I speak Spanish & have studied German & French). The grammar rules of Spanish are so much simpler than the others, as is the pronunciation. German is phonetic but has declinations and such long words & some difficult sounds to English speaking ears, never mind the grammar rules (verb at ends of long sentences, capitalising every noun?, huge compound words, etc.).