State/private observation - confidence in young children

[MammyT]

I've noticed that all the children we know who started private schools within the last few years have so much more confidence than mine in the state sector. They're better able to speak up and reply to adults, believe in themselves more etc. All the families are broadly speaking similiar in economic and educational backgrounds.
So are private school kids more confident because they go to their schools (as in made feel special) or is this just a fluke with the young kids we know?

My 2 both go to private school and they have both grown in confidence since being there. However they are not aware that they go to private school (neither are their friends) so I don't think they are confident because they 'know they go to private school' - if that is what you are getting at?
With my 2 in particular I think the confidence is coming from the teaching they receive and the extra activities they do such as drama, dance and sport. Not the fact it is private.

It's a good question and I've noticed it too. Both mine went to boarding prep and when younger definately seemed more confident than their state ed. counterparts. If its any consilation now both are a senior school one at top boys boarding school, one at state comp the difference is less obvious, when I meet DS1 friends from our excellent local comp they are generally as confident as those I meet at DS2 boarding school.

Id call it more self-assurance than confidence.

Ive noticed it in terms of long term expectations eg ability to do top jobs amongst pupils of similar aptitude.

Probably down to their parents and personality. They are all different. There are plenty of DCs in the state sector who are self confident and assured.

I have noticed it too, but I wouldn't say it is confidence it is more self assurance, like margerykemp says. Confidence runs much deeper than being able to look at an adult in the eye and speak in an articulate manner.

Surely inner confidence comes from a loving and secure background and a belief in one's abillities which is nurtured from within the family?

I went to a private school and feel the opposite about myself. I was painfully shy, could barely look at other adults let alone talk to them as a child. My siblings at the same school were very different though. It really didn't help me at all but my sibling's personalities meant it didn't hold them back. It was a small private school and has closed down so not the greatest example.

This will morph into private school children being arrogant wankers or some old Etonian that a poster knows who is charming but a total shallow fuck who drug deals and beats puppies..

But fwiw I do think this is one area where a lot of private schools do quite well.
My eldest ds is not naturally confident but speaks well and makes conversation readily even though I can see he finds it difficult. I am sure many state schools do this well too but I think the way many private schools prioritise this gives the private system an edge in this regard.

Ds1 had no lessons he could hide in, the boys had to contribute. Dds school make the girls perform in assemblies every few week, they are expected to stand on stage and speak before the school regularly -every few weeks- from age 5
At school I tried to avoid raising my hand and never performed in the few plays etc arranged. My dc have to do it and got used to it really early.

Not wanting to create the thread direction that Pagwatch has predicted .... but ...

I do think that there can be quite a fine line between 'confident / self-assured' and an 'I-am-the-master-of-the-universe' arrogance! Which way that balance swings will depend on the child, the family background and the particular school. I can see that with a child who is not naturally self-confident, some private schools will provide a training and an environment in which their public presentation of themselves will become more self-assured. With a naturally more self-confident child, especially when boosted by a family brimming with self-confidence and used to leadership, that same training and environment can produce a little lordling....

That said, good state schools can also do the things that Pagwatch describes. My proudest moments as a parent have been watching my (selective mute at the age of 6) DS speak in assembly, perform in the school plays every child takes part in every year, play solo clarinet in the school concert...and discuss his own progress confidently with his teacher at parents' evenings.

Mammy - are you confident?

I think the biggest influence is how confident you are.

I don't know any privately educated kids.

But the state school kids I know are all as confident as their parents.....

A different view is that in some inner-city schools, middle class children need to learn to be invisible in order to avoid being conspicious.

What Pag says makes sense. Certainly when I went to private school, we were encouraged and it was expected that we speak publicly regularly; at the comprehensives I went to, it wasn't on the agenda at all.

My DC are at the local state primary, and whilst DS is very self assured and confident with us, his friends, in class, and even volunteers to speak in assemblies, he is not as confident and articulate when speaking with adults socially as his private school counterparts.

PMSL. Come and meet the Inferiorettes some time. Especially DD1. A child whose articulate confidence is quite embarrassing sometimes.

I agree.

Just a little non scientific observational experience, but I watched my local 'outstanding' village state school's nativity last year and was so saddened at the end at how different the infants were to the several independent school equivalents I also saw. It really wasn't what I was expecting but there was a massive difference in terms of confidence.

But everything here will be anecdotal, so it'll be impossible to "prove" anything one way or another...

I agree that private schools are often very good at the adult-child relationship. I remember when I took ds to visit a prospective school, and the receptionist came round from behind the desk, crouched down, looked him in the eye, shook his hand and said, 'It's a pleasure to meet you, [name].'

This was repeated by every adult he meet. Once he started going there, I noticed that, although he is shy and finds it very difficult to look at people and talk clearly at first meeting, they would gently insist that he went through the motions - if he didn't shake firmly or didn't look at them or if he mumbled, they would just (kindly) make him do it again... For a shy child, I think it's the only way for this to become natural and it has made an enormous difference. I wouldn't say he still presents as very self-assured (he can be painfully shy) but it has at least made him confident that on certain occasions he can go through the correct motions. A huge help.

Indigo - I'm afraid your theory doesn't hold with us. I am confident socially and I have one very shy dc and one very self-conscious dc (not quite the same thing). Dh is quietly self-assured so it's not from him, either!

I'd vouch for MI's DD1 on that point (not the embarassment, merely the articulate confidence).

I think state school children get more chances for public speaking than they used to, as well. My friend's daughter was interviewing for their new headteacher the other day. She wasn't phased. I would have been at the same age. Nor would I have been able to show parents round my school in the way the local children can.

I really hope my children's self belief will come from home and the stability a loving family can give them. Anything else is just a veneer.

I agree that much of it comes from home background, but self-assured people can still have shy children though, and there are plenty of confident children in the state system.

I think the smaller classes enables teachers to give more attention to the quieter children.

As for the naturally confident children I don't agree it makes them even worse, in DS's case it has taught him to rein himself in a bit more and to let other people get a word in edgeways!

Everyone is encouraged to perform regularly in the big plays and concerts, but also in class and assembly, which teaches them how to overcome any nerves they might have.

DS has a friend who is very shy and introverted, yet he will be singing 'You Sexy Thing' in the school play; I can't wait to see it.

My DD was supremely confident before she started school. No idea where she gets it from(other than secure , consistant love at home)

Depends on the school, at my dds' state primary, they place a massive emphasis on every child performing publicly regularly, the head addresses children individually all the time and expects a response etc. DD1 who was the shyest child imaginable is transformed, now in y2. I can't imagine a private school could have done it any better but it may be different elsewhere.

That should be fazed, by the way (embarassed)

I think you're right about the self-assurance.

When I was at prep school we did speech lessons from being 4 or 5, standing up in front of the class saying poems or doing readings.

I would say I'm fairly shy, but because I did competitions and performances from that age, I really don't mind speaking in front of an audience, because I'm confident I'm doing it 'right'.

Some really interesting and broadly agreeing posts - thanks!
To answer the question, both DH and I are self-assured and well educated so it does seem odd that our kids seem less confident. Perhaps some stage classes when older will help.