Comparing a good state comp to an independent

[Flipfloppies]

Hi - this is a good few years away, but starting to look around now. What, in your opinion is a good way of comparing two school - an outstanding comp on one hand and an independent school on the other. What specific things do YOU/ did YOU look at?
Many thanks.

Marking my place as also starting to consider options.

private was never an option for me
BUT
the crux of it when sorting the wheat from the chaff of ALL schools IMHO is to sit outside the gate at kicking out time.
Do you like what you see?

Most independents will offer a taster day. It is a good way for your child to gauge the quality of teaching. My DD said one well known school had very bored looking pupils and uninspiring teaching. The glossy stuff (pools, theaters, helicopter pads) is just window dressing, I would compare on the teaching.

I have one DS in top performing state and one in top performing boys boarding school. Choosing a school is all about what fits your child, DS1 would not have been happy in DS2 (independent school), But having said all of that the independent school is a million times better in ever way so if its right for your child then independent will always be better tan what ever the state can offer.

completely agree with happygardening - it's about what suits your child and what you can afford. so if DC shows specific talents in specific areas, go for the one that seems to suit those as well as providing decent standards of educational outcomes.. That said, I would say that quality of teaching, leadership, behaviour are really important indications of whether your child is likely to thrive - much more than whether there is a sparkling new gym.

For me the best for DS Independent wasn't that much better than the Outstanding Comp, especially when you factor in the commute. But it does depend on the child. I do worry about both my DDs and may choose something different for them, but I have more choice of girl schools anyway.

For me, it was about size. I didn't want ds1 in a place where he could get through to 6th form and there still be some teachers who didn't know his name. Around here, the state schools are so massive you can easily be anonymous unless you are particularly gifted or particularly naughty.

He got a scholarship and a bursary to a small local indie where all the teachers know all the children's names whether they teach the child or not.

I also didn't like the way state schools streamed. In every school I looked at your English & Maths set determined what set you were in for history, geography and just about everything else. In our indie each subject is individually set so you could be crap at maths so in the bottom set, ok at english so in the middle set but a wizz at geography or science or french or any other so in the top set. In a large school the logistics of timetabling just wouldn't allow for that sort of flexibility.

It really does depend both on the child and the schools that you have available to choose between.

I have dc in private and state schools. In general (speaking from london experience) private and state grammar schools seem much more consistent in their approach to teaching but comps differ widely. Our local (huge but high performing) comp has individual setting for all pupils for all years and in all subjects except citizenship. The other comp near to us has not setting at all until y9 and even then its pretty much based on english and maths ability as eatyourveg's experience.

So look closely at your child and the possible schools and think carefully about (a) whether they'd be happy at the school and (b) whether the private alternative is worth the extra £17k per annum for 4-7 years.

For one of my dc this was not the case and we're happily going the state route. For the other it was obvious that the state option wouldn't really suit her so we've gone private.

If you have a choice, like us, you are very lucky.

DS at very selective London day school, very bright sporty alpha boy. Eight very happy years with less than two years to go. DD top average, quiet, not sporty and we sent her to a small church school with an amazing reputation. Academically the school suited her, the size was right and there were some lovely girls from many different backgrounds. There was also a significant minoRity who were disruptive and unmanageable and they had a negative impact on learning and enjoyment. State schools have to admit girls like these and for budgetary reasons are reluctant to permanently exclude. After much soul searching we transferred DD to the independent sector at the end of y8.

There was also a significant minoRity who were disruptive and unmanageable and they had a negative impact on learning and enjoyment. State schools have to admit girls like these and for budgetary reasons are reluctant to permanently exclude.

State schools with amazing reputations are always oversubscribed and keep waiting lists, so permanent exclusion of disruptive children will have no budgetary impact and a very positive effect on the remaining children. Budgetary reasons are an excuse for a weak Governing Body not supporting the Headteacher on demonstrably fair, sustained and decisive action to exclude permanently. The school will deservedly lose its "amazing reputation" if it does not act quickly to stamp out unacceptable behaviour.

As to OP's original question, I agree with many here that it depends on the individual schools and your child. Remember that your child will not always be 7/11/13, and competent teachers easily remember many thousands of children long after they no longer teach them. The new entrants taking you around on open days are a good indicator. Their parents have newly chosen that school, so that's a powerful source of information. Which schools they considered, why they are there, what their aspirations are, etc.

I have seen ability/attainment segregation at long established outstanding public, comp and grammar schools. The only difference, provided you feel the school is good enough for your child, is that when you pay lots of money, you assume they will bring out the best whatever set/stream/class your child ends up in. There are better and worse teachers in both sectors and what you don't (wish to) see you won't mind. Your child will signal clearly to you whether they are engaged and up to scratch, even if that is only in the school holidays. Again you can choose whether to take note.

It also helped us to remember that being stressed out doesn't change which school they end up in. It only makes life less pleasant for a while.

School help - I was told by the HT that they could not exclude because even if they filled the vacant place, they had to continue to fund the education for the excluded child and that places in pr units or personal tutors until a place in a mainstream school became available were prohibitively expensive. Was this a lie?

married, I don't know if that was a lie, but others may. Even temporary exclusions must be better than damaging the other girls' learning. Children like that can be taken out of class for most/all of the day even if they are kept in school. Every school has such a room for such children.

If you were HT and faced with the choice of doing the right thing for that child as well as for the others in every class they damaged, what would you do? It may also save other children, whose parents will work with the school to avoid exclusion. Can HT afford to not exclude, is how some places look at it. From what I've seen the effort to ratchet up the events and monitor behaviour is enormous, but seen as worthwhile for schools who put their money where their mouth is when they purport to have a learning ethos.

I am sorry that your DD had to leave, but if that child damaged every girl's schooling, she should have been sent somewhere else.

I would say it sounds like ineffective leadership (of the school) rather than not being able to do something. Extremely disruptive pupils in all schools I know, are worked with to handle their difficulties, and tend to be moved to classes where there behaviour is less of an issue, and they get more help. Most of them have horrific home lives and difficulties, which is why they are disruptive. But certainly budget is no excuse for not dealing with them effectively, which means help as well as punishment.

marriedinwhite: there certainly have been proposals to fund exclusions as described to you: TES article here, but I don't know if they've come into effect.

Back to OP - yy to the advice to hang around outside the school on an ordinary day to see what the pupils are like.

But also looks at some of the nuts and bolts - what is the curriculum on offer, particularly what languages are offered, and whether they do singles sciences, and whether there are combinations of subjects that they cannot timetable. What co-curricular activities are offered? What school concerts plays have been put on in the last three years or so? Do they have an orchestra, choir, rock group, glee club?

Yes, you are all right, it was poor leadership and I suspect an inbuilt desire to spoil something very very good in the name of equality and opportunity for all regardless of the damage being done to the majority. Regrettably I couldn't change the leadership and dd's education and quality of life was worth more to us than the HT's misguided principles and even I had been able to change it, it would have been too late for dd.