Helping Son get to Oxbridge

[Akaur1]

My youngest has started AS level this year, he has always been bright and wants to go to Oxford but I'm not sure how to help me.

He loves Maths and has always been academically talented, he's not sure what he wants to do but looking at a career relating to finance/banking in future.

He went to standard comp and now in a sixth form, can anyone help me with advice on how I can best help my son now to get ready for apply for university and what could help give him the edge compared to other kids whom will be apply from private school's etc.

The one thing that will help giving him the edge (assuming that he has an array of A*s in academic subjects) is being able to do a good interview, convincing the admissions officer that he personally (that is, not you, not his family) has the initiative and independence to cope well with Oxbridge.

So first of all, I would make sure he knows this, that he understands the kind of qualities that Oxbridge will be looking for and takes care to bring that out in interview.

He needs to have thought carefully about the specific course he is applying for an be able to verbalise what he is hoping to learn from it and what qualities/previous experience he has that he thinks will enable him to get the most from it.

And more generally, I would spend time with him discussing general matters, encouraging him to think about things and verbalise his arguments.

There have been several threads on this so have a search for Oxbridge/Cambridge/Oxford. The general consensus seems to be that as well as excellent grades, what the tutors are looking for is people who are intensely passionate about their subject, who can argue convincingly, who have read widely about it, not just enough to pass exams. Oxbridge doesn't care how many old ladies your son may have helped, or whether he climbed 20 mountains in his two week Easter holiday, they want to know what his brain is like and whether he will succeed in the Oxbridge environment.

Can he demonstrate that he has gone 'above and beyond':
Has he taken part in the Maths Challenges?
Has he looked at what is required for STEP?
Is he on nrich?

DS1 started at Oxford last week (Medicine), so I hope the following is up to-date and relevant.

Obviously, excellent exam results are needed, minimum of AAA at A-level/AAAAA at Scottish higher (+ typically AA at Scottish Advanced Higher, as per my DS1's offer). GCSE would be expected to have a good handful of A*.

DS1 was (Scottish) state schooled, did Duke of Edin silver and gold, had volunteer job 1 day per week for just over a year when his application was submitted (Oxbridge apps go in early, Mid Oct deadline). Did Medlink the year before he applied, 4 day residential at which there was an Oxbridge delegation and lectures - that was for potential medical students, but I think the same kind of residential courses exist for other subject areas....

Your DS will be applying in 12 months - time to get some CV enhancing activities on the go, right now! NO, Oxford don't care about your charity work and your Dof E, but they do care about the fact that a packed life shows you can handle an academic workload and still fit in other things. BUT, the other Unis he applies to will care about these things, so it won't be time/money wasted.

It is VERY important for DS to be able to show that he has read in depth about his subject, way beyond the school curriculum, or has undertaken work or self-motivated projects - Oxford interviews take place over 2 days and they will be looking for evidence of great enthusiasm for his chosen subject.

I'd suggest subscribing right now to the Economist and making sure DS reads it! Any interest in computing/programming (NOT computer games!), should be encouraged - high finance is all about computer programs these days....

I did maths at Oxford.

There may well be an exam on arriving (I did it when you did exam before interview). In maths a lot will ride on the exam, as maths is more working/exam based. They may tell you there will be when they call for interview, they may not.
Setting out clearly (so they can see your thought process even if wrong) will be helpful.

Extra-curriculum, even things like maths challenges unless you get to the final stages, are not going to be looked at. I don't think one of my tutors ever bothered reading that bit on the UCCAS form.

Reading round, even in maths, may well be asked about. I read "The Emperor's New Mind" by Roger Penrose. I thought beforehand what I would say if asked about it, and wrote a couple of paragraphs outlining the book, and what I found most interesting which I regurgitated in the interview. Must have been fairly convincing as the tutor remarked that I'd read the book carefully.

You need to think around the subject. A favourite one (which I think wqs physics rather than maths) was the person falling over on frictionless ice and can't get up. How does he get to the side? The answer is along the lines of he needs to create a force, so if he blows, he creates a force and will move him backwards. There isn't necessarily a right/wrong answer. They just want to see your reasoning.

And finally: there is more than an aspect of luck. Getting a tutor that likes you, a college that hasn't got large applicants that year, an exam that suits you etc. all will effect the chance of getting in.

Eton runs a summer school for state educated year 12 students who have Oxbridge potential. It might be worth a look.

www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/working_with_schools_and_colleges/uniq/new_summer_school.html
This replaced the old Oxford Access scheme which was designed to increase applications from state schools, might be worth a look
AFAIK, Cambridge has "better" reputation for maths than Oxford, but that's probably hair splitting!

I'd definitely recommend getting him a fantastic private tutor to help prepare for the interview. I went to Oxford and the interviews are incredibly tough and getting harder. If u live in London area I'd be happy to recommend some.

this is more related to banking/finance (if that's the ultimate goal), it might be more useful to study physics, engineering or economics rather than maths for that purpose. also, banks recruit from a wider range than just oxbridge, especially LSE, Imperial College and Warwick.

'Fantastic private tutor to help prepare for the interview'! That seems so wrong.

Interested to know why you think the interviews are getting harder Agatha.

sanam raises a good point - I read somewhere else that the Banks are recruiting physics students as the degree has the kind of thinking that Banks want.

Hi yellowstone, I know it does seem wrong!
But so many kids (especially those at leading public schools) get so much preparation for Oxbridge - reading lists, endless interviews with tough questions and they are taught to be razor sharp and ready for anything. When I applied to Oxford from a state sixth form, my interview went quite badly as I was so woefully unprepared for rigorous academic debate. I got in the second time tho. Having a tutor (who has been to Oxbridge themselves and know the system) can really help point students in the right direction. Two students I know have just got into Oxbridge - one for economics and one for philosophy. Both had specialist tutors for two months in the run up.

It was probably incorrect of me to say that the interviews are getting harder, its more that the competition is getting stiffer. You therefore have to really shine in front of the panel.

I think AgathaPinchBottom must be correct.

After all, think of The History Boys where the school itself employs an "Oxbridge enabler" to help its clever but not necessarily polished pupils.

I know a boy who applied last year to Oxford and he told me that his preparation was... nowt. There was a meeting for interested students at his Sixth Form College, where they were told it was incredibly competitive and to "read around the subject". You could be the most self-motivated person in the universe, but still need decent and relevant direction.

But so many kids (especially those at leading public schools) get so much preparation for Oxbridge - reading lists, endless interviews with tough questions and they are taught to be razor sharp and ready for anything.

This is really a bit alarmist and not awfully helpful. The numbers currently applying to Oxbridge are so large that entrance is simply a bit of a lottery, and I think it's really worth bearing that in mind. The interviewers might like your child. If your dc is in the ball park and keen, have a go. The universities have tried hard to level the field but with such huge numbers, it's an inexact science.

I second trying to find a course during holidays. Some universities run them. Villiers Park is charity mentioned on UCAS website which does similar courses .

I think agatha is probably one of these super tutors herself

I thought that too Nancy :)

I'm not sure Alan Bennett wrote the play in the way he did to demonstrate the need for a tutor. On that basis OP's DS might also need a close male relation who was a favoured college scout.

I think the best advice is to save your money and time and avoid all super tutors like the plague, to tell him not to get too hung up on the interview (they seem massively over-hyped) and above all to be himself. Probably work steadily and read around this year too :)

If his Sixth Form sends few students to Oxford, perhaps try the week long UNIQ summer school. All the info is on their website.

Thanks for replying Agatha.

It's entirely possible for students to completely screw up in an interview and still get in (I hope that heartens the less prepared).

You don't need a tutor to prepare for interview, but you can practice at home to make sure they are comfortable with all the usual questions of why this university, why this subject etc, but my DS1 was not asked ANY questions about this, or about anything on his PS, at either of the 2 colleges which interviewed him. They did discuss a lot of science concepts and push him to deduce facts and explain his conclusions, very little of it was to do with Medicine, his subject. He had a conversation about the crystalline structure of snowflakes, for example, as there was a lot of snow about at the time. I think they were looking for evidence of lots of reading outside his school subjects, and also an ability to deduce from facts they gave him, and an ability ti argue his case.
So they best interview practice is constant arguing of points of view and facts round the dinner table!
I am sure the tutors who interview are good at spotting the ones who have spent several grand on interview coaching......

Well actually yellowstone, I heard Alan Bennett's next venture was a tutoring college in Sheffield

OP I am going to pitch in and agree with those who have suggested periodicals and discussion round the dinner table - I think that discussing anything, even current affairs unrelated to the subject is useful because it gets DC into practice of thinking quickly, explaining their arguments and making a case in a non dogmatic way and incidentally I do think it helps establish the relevant brain connections.
Anyway its good fun for all the family
Debate Chambers has also been suggested to me in the past though my DC never went
The Royal Institution does good lectures/talks which look good on the PS and are also interesting.
Your DS might like to think about what aspect of the subject he is interested in and try getting some relevant work experience for example shadowing at Price Waterhouse etc. These companies have branches all over the UK and you /DC can email/write in and ask nicely if as a sixth former he can spend time there after AS exams - even if its just a few days- Prestigious companies often have excellent links with state schools so your 6th form work experience co ordinator will probably be really pleased to be asked.
The AS results are really important. In terms of extra currics DS should do what he enjoys and gives him confidence and stick to what he can commit to and reach a decent level at and he will be fine. Quality not quantity is best for extra currics.
Oxford will have an outreach officer with responsibility for the geographical area which your sons school is in, specifically to guide and encourage state school pupils. I think Cambridge has this scheme too. If you ring the undergrad admissions office on a weekday and find out who it is for the patch and let your son's school 6th form tutor know they can probably invite them to the school to give an Oxbridge talk and arrange a visit for your DS. YOur Ds will be eligible for the Sutton trust summer schools and these will be good. Also look out for subject specific open days on the university websites and apply.
Good luck

At my Oxford interview the tutor said "I don't give a toss if you play rugger or have violin at grade 8. You'll get a place if you're good enough at maths".

We had to talk (with no previous warning until we saw the note on the outside of the interview room door) for 15 minutes on a mathematical topic of our choice. It's worth reading some books about mathematical topics that are off the curriculum and interesting: ramsey theory, fractals, graph theory, fuzzy logic...

Thanks everyone for all your replies, I had word with him and he has started reading books metnioned as well as looking up the different courses.

He also approached a teacher and will also be doing DoE silver this year.

A final thought: if your son is not yet totally sure what to study (good matheticians indeed have lots of options) , he should also keep in mind that different Oxford and Cambridge courses have different success rates. To be offered a place on any of them, though, he will need to expand his maths skills beyond the level of the average comprehensive school. The best way to do this is by seeking out ever more challenging maths problems to solve. If he?s not going for pure maths but a related course, he must now start to explore it academically. I tweet Oxbridge admissions advice @oxbridgentrance, and he will find suggestions for both actions there.

Don't let your son worry about his private school competitors...Oxford and Cambridge want bright students who can work hard and think for themselves.

They will not be impressed by someone just because they went to a particular school. I did engineering at Cambridge and - at our college - 5 of us had gone to state schools, 2 to private schools and 2 were foreign.

However, you son does need to know what he need to have studied. When I went, mathematicians were expected to have done further maths A-level and step papers (Do they still exist, or is it pre-u now?)

The most important thing is to be yourself at interview.

For a subject like Maths, I'd echo the comment above that it's all about the Maths at interview ... what really helped me was to attend as many of the events that Oxford ran for sixth-form students as possible - there are loads especially aimed at state school pupils. I went to two day physics courses, introductions to engineering, materials science workshops, you name it. (It helped that I lived in Oxford, but school did give me time off and people who lived further afield did get free accommodation in a college, so don't let that put you off).

I also did a week's engineering course at Bath University in a summer holiday. These things all made me realise that Uni maths is a huge step up from A-level maths and encouraged me to read around the subject (and read ahead in my A-level work) enough to have the confidence to stand up in front of two tutors and do calculations on a whiteboard at interview. Many of these weren't calculations I'd covered at A-level, but they wanted to see how I thought through the challenges, and thought in a mathematical way, applied maths to real life situations etc.

Most importantly, workshops like this will help someone decide if they really do want to do theoretical Maths, or an applied course like Engineering Science... if you choose Cambridge it is easier to switch / choose after the first year.