views on education in other countries

[iggly2]

I wondered about education systems in other countries and what people thought of them. Which ones seem to get it right ? How is further education funded? What hours are children educated?

Just an anecdote, but surprised me. I always assumed the French had a sound, system, but a colleague who commutes from Paris complains bitterly about his DD's Parisian fee-paying school.

Ludicrously long holidays in which all the kids forget everything and end up playing computer games all day; parents have to buy all the text books; teachers give vague instructions and are never available; deadened syllabus based on chanting and learning by rote; substandard teaching; rotten behaviour - his dismal list goes on.

I was agog - surely that's not standard in France? He claims it is. He said he'd love to get her in a good London comp but can't move back for whatever reason.

I'm certainly not impressed with what I've heard on hear about the French, US, Spanish and Irish systems.

I'm very against any system which forces children to repeat a year if they 'fail', which both France and the US do.

I'm also very against any system which doesn't have a differentiated system, but all kids in the class learn the same thing, which I think France, US, Spain and Ireland do.

In Asia kids are very often taught in 2 shifts. ie you either go to school in the morning (8-12) or the afternoon (1-6). I wish overcrowded London would bring this in instead of expanding schools that are over full :( But I can't see that being a popular decision.

NZ and Aus seem to do 'mixed methods' rather than phonics teaching. So I don't like them. In fact what I hear about the SEN teaching in NZ makes me very glad I'm over here.

So actually, I think the UK might have the best system :)

(Although I would quite like the kids to just go to school in the morning. And leave the afternoons free for extra curricula stuff.)

The only thing I don't like here is the lack of choice of type of school. But with the new academies and free schools, things are improving.

Oh and I don't like how many subjects they study at GCSE and how few at A levels. Where I'm from you studied 5 or 6 at both, and I think that works better.

Also I don't like the way there's no set number to how many GCSEs and A levels you should be taking. There should be very little variation about how many you can take.
:)

My 3 kids are actually receiving a very good education here, and I'm glad we're in the UK.

Oh, yes. The US have G&T schools - which I'm even more against than everything else.

At 4 they decide whether or not your child is G&T and put them in a different school! Needless to say they're not very good at determining which 4 year olds actually are G&T......

Finland always seems to have the highest literacy rates and internationally respected system.

Actually according to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate this]] Finalnd has the same literacy rate as the UK (99%)

The trouble is, there is no way to measure 'literacy rate'. You can't really trust any of the figures for that, because of the way the figures are arrived at.

Literacy Rate

I have liked the sound of the scandanavian countries and NZ ,Australia and Canada for potential immigration to. Anyone have views and ideas as to which could be good, I like the idea of good state education and more space to live?

Thanks for the literacy chart.

If your child doesn't have any SEN, then I highly recommend NZ :)

That's top of the list! Just want somewhere to live not just survive. Maybe have more children .

I get the impression there is lots of outdoor space and sport is encouraged there. Do you know about class sizes and when they start school from and day length?

I like the system I see here in The Netherlands and also anecdotally what I've heard of Sweden.

I have a Swedish friend who had absolutely no interest in academia but was allowed to explore "jobs". Aged 16 she had her own salon in Stockholm.

Here in NL, if my son turns out not to be academic, rather than "forcing" him to do A-levels, he'll be able to go to trade school from 14 instead, so equipping him with skills rather than setting him on a course for failure.

In NZ you start school on the day you turn 5.

Then school has discretion about when you go up, so there's no 1st Sep hard cut off date. Kids from May - Aug may be in one year or the other.

I think infant class sizes are much smaller than here in the UK. My parents are horrified that we have 30 kids in a class.

Schools have much bigger grounds. There are laws around how many meters per kid you can have. So all schools have enough space.

School hours are normally 9 - 3.

I have mixed views on the French system. They focus on Maths, Sciences and Philosophy and the arts and humanities are seen as less important. There is also very little room for creativity, massive amounts of homework and incredble pressure on children to succeed.

However there are good options to be vocational into more practical type studies.

Their insistence on diplomas and degrees for absolutely everything is a nightmare though. Even to work in a bank as a customer adviser you need a degree. They don't seem to consider learning on the job as being as important as a piece of paper. I think in theUK there are more options for people without a degree but with the ability.

I don't like the Luxembourg system but one good thing is that all children leave school able to speak French, German, English and Luxembourgish. This sets them up really well. They don't just learn the languages but have classes in the foreign language. So Maths for example might be in German, and History might be in French. Children are good at learning languages and pick them up quiclkly.

I have friends from NZ - one of them is a teacher and for a while taught in a UK prep school before they went back to NZ (my other friend was homesick )

The interesting thing was the teacher was not at all looking forward to going back to teach in NZ - he much preferred the UK. He said that things like music etc were valued whereas in NZ you might be considered a "wuss" for doing them.

About French schools, I was a bit concerned but actually it's not as bad as I expected so far. Perhaps we are lucky.

"Ludicrously long holidays in which all the kids forget everything and end up playing computer games all day" The holidays are long and the kids would be better off with shorter school days and shorter holidays but if they forget everything and play computer games all day, that's not the fault of the education system IMHO.

I haven't had to buy any text books yet and DS is in the last but one year of primary. The teachers are always available just before and just after school, my DCs have not had to chant anything or learn anything by rote apart from learning a poem off or song off by heart about once a month which is seen as a sort of exercise to keep your brain fit.

There is a lack of opportunity for creativity and I don't like the way some teachers keep control through threats but so far it has only been the replacement teachers who have disappointed.

The US system varies hugely depending on where you are. In cities there might be magnet schools and charter schools that function a bit like grammars, ie age 12 you apply and maybe get in, but out in rural areas (and there's a lot of rural...) there's the local school and that's it. Which may focus on getting kids through minimum requirements to avoid being a 'dropout' - rather like the emphasis on C/D boundary students here only at a lower level.

I do like the fact that if you've done all the courses you need to graduate, then with luck you can take courses in high school for university credits (or at least to exempt you from basic required courses for a degree). Online courses have really helped here as now most schools can offer them.

I don't like how you can miss out subjects like history or geography or two sciences for years in a row in school, as they are only required for a year or so (so might do biology in grade 7, chem in g8, physics in 9, repeat with the advanced versions). But then you have to take a wide variety of subjects for a degree, so it's rather the opposite of our broad-based GCSEs, narrowing at A-level and specialising at uni.

I am Italian and still go often and have friends with my children's ages. I would say that the biggest differences are:

• they start school later, ie at 6 but parents can choose to send them a little earlier after their 5th birthday if the child is ready and if there are places;
• from very early on children are expected to sit in rows and learn
• still very traditional in the way there is a lot of "drilling" of the basics
• lots of homework from earlier on
• lots of emphasis on grammar
• whole class teaching (no streaming) but generally standards are higher and would say that the whole class teaching is aimed at the top rather than the bottom. If children are behind it's seen as the parents' problem, largely.
• most children do English from age 6 although the quality of it varies widely
• at 13 one chooses what type of school to go to, academic children generally go to Liceo Classico or Liceo Scientifico. There are Technical Schools, music schools, etc...most "middle class" children go for the first two, some with a lot of tutoring to support them
• there are no private schools really, and the liceo classico/scientifico are generally in middle class areas anyway and are catchment driven
• private schools are seen as generally for remedial purposes, unless they are nuns/priests ones, which are generally seen as quite good/traditional

the german system is similar to the italian harp discribes.
my nephew who is the same age as my son (reception) will only start school in 2 years time.

what I detest about the german system is that they 'sort' the children by grades ability after year 4 (age 10) and split them into 3 different school systems. only the higher system (gymnasium) allows for entry to university, to get there from the 2 lower school is hard work if not impossible.

what I don't like about the british/english system is the early specialisation. it might be difficult to get a banking job/university place with a-levels in chemistry or biology.

I agree with mousymouse that sort children as they do in germany at the tender age of ten is pretty shocking.
I also dislike the US system of going to college at 17 the equivalent of the Uk year 13 I think that this year younger and less mature that leads to a lot of the heavy drinking that goes on in the frat houses - I have first hand experience of this.
I do like the track that the French system allows on the IB in the last two years, however, the chanting and rote learning I am not keen on. I have a friend who teaches in a French primary and is considered very alternative for having a carpet in her class for the children to sit on round her. She buys lots of resources when she is here in the UK.

can someone give some info about the Irish system

Contrary to what has been posted here above, I like a system where children who do not meet the required level by the end of the school year are kept back a year. In my experience it reduces the number of children being disruptive or bored because they have no clue as to what is being thought. I never really understood why a lot of people in the UK complain so much about testing or the long summer break. We had two months off over the summer and our brains did not go to pot after the hols. I guess it is what you are used to and what you consider to be normal when you are growing up.