Teachers - would YOU be prepared to use a cane?

[Greensleeves]

Inspired by Hulababy's fantastic post on the other thread

SURELY this could never work, because teachers would refuse? I don't know any teachers IRL who would be happy to hit a child with a stick and would be surprised to meet someone who would.

Wouldn't teachers protest/walk out/take some sort of group action to prevent this from happening in our schools? Please, tell me society can't actually go backwards!

No, because I'd do it in temper - like when some girl backchats you and you're just itching to slap her across the face. It'd be useless then cos the kid would've effectively won - yes they're hurt, but you've lost control and behaved worse.

I know in the school I work in there used to be a caner for the boys and one for the girls, so not every teacher used the cane.Again though, that controlled violence seems to calculated and cruel.

DH, however, (not a teacher) was occasionally caned or had things thrown at him in school and is all in favour of corporal punishment for adults in lieu of prison, not necessarily school kids though.

and from a teacher who models exactly what he / she expects from the pupils all the time

Exactly-I hardly think it helps to model that you hit someone smaller and weaker because you can.

Mind you some are not smaller and weaker and are quite likely to resist.

No, never. I choose to work in schools which are 'challenging' - ie in deprived areas where students are generally having a crap time at home and school is a refuge for them. Because they are used to being shouted at, hit at home and see their fathers perhaps hit their mothers, they can often be violent themselves. We teach them calmly, firmly with boundaries that don't include violence. I would not work in a school that used violence against students. I want students to respect me, not to fear me.

Not until hell freezes over thank you. I like my pupils, I don't want to hit them.

Even the ones I don't much like I have no desire to hit.

Caning is a very effective disciplinary tool if used appropriately. I thank my parents and teacher for having them on standby (never caned by teacher but parents had used them on me a few times) as it's made me a much better child and person - respectful and grateful towards people who cared about me and brought me up. On the other hand, I remember in resentment smacks and pinches (yes, in school as well... arrgh.. stilll angry thinking about it) as they seemed more to me like the grown-up had 'lost control' and therefore it's not discipline to me. In fact, I'm really annoyed that I'm not allowed to cane my children, rather just allowed to smack when they do something dangerous like running onto the road. I want to be able to cane him, not smack. I hate smacking but have to as I can't use the cane. Bring back caning in schools and homes please.

timetosleepnow is this a wind up? You want to be allowed to beat your children with a cane? That absolutely sickens me beyond belief.

I am a teacher and never in a million years would I cane a child, no matter what their misdemeanours were. I didn't go into teaching in order to harm children.
In a hypothetical situation where it was made legal again (this will never happen anyway) I would not work in such a school that re-introduced it into their discipline policy, and I would support and participate in any union activity campaigning against it. I am not sure that I would leave the profession as that would be one more vacancy for a cane wielding loon to get access to children.

I have posted elsewhere on this topic that you would not be allowed to treat a dog like this, but apparently all these people are in favour of doing it to (other peoples)children.
I find it really sickening that attitudes have not moved on.

kat2504 are YOU a wind up? Did you even read my post and my own personal experience? Can you not come to terms with other's opinions and experience? No one I know growing up being caned ever suffered emotionally or mentally, or ever became a horrible violent person.

You're bringing a dog into the picture? My child is NOT a dog. If my dog runs onto the road and gets killed, I will cry and mourn over him. If my CHILD on the other hand runs onto the road and gets killed, I will probably kill myself!! Therefore I WILL discipline my child whom I love very much and make sure that doesn't happen in the most effective way, God forbid! Don't forget every child is different too, my child ignores everything we say or do unless he gets smacked (for example, I have smacked him once when he ran onto the road when he was 2 and he never did it again). perhaps you've just never come across a child like mine your entire life so count yourself lucky.

I think being caned has harmed you actually as you now want to perpetuate that cycle of abuse.

So you as a teacher, would actually not smack my 2 year old son when you see him run onto the road whilst looking after him, instead just kindly explaining to him he's not to do that (bearing in mind he does NOT listen to anything any grown ups tell him), and then let him do it again and get killed? I sure do hope no teachers looking after my children is as narrow minded as you, so stubborn in your own beliefs that you are unwilling to accommodate a child as different and that he needs to be disciplined differently.

I am pretty sure when you say abuse, you are picturing a grown up whipping a child with a cane over and over again. I'm talking about a calm situation whereby you give the child warning(in dangerous situations, e.g.playing with fire, a child climbing on dangerous things after being warned over and over again not to, or a 5 year old child trying to put his toy on the fire when told not to), get the cane, explain why it's necessary and then a tap on the hand with the cane. That's what I had from my parents. Not quite the end of the world for a child and definitely not abuse. If my child does anything dangerous like that in school despite being told a million times not to, I would not mind him being caned in a calm controlled manner.

No, I would run out into the road and remove him to safely and then tell him off. My first priority would be to remove him from danger. A two year old does not deliberately do something dangerous to be naughty. They do it because they don't know it is dangerous yet. That is why adults are supervising them.

If he doesn't do anything you tell him without violence then I suggest the problem is more what you are doing that the child.

I am not narrow minded. It is illegal for teachers to hit children so no teacher will hit your child whatever he does.

Caning is not necessary. Remove the child from danger, explain the danger, tell them off for doing it, and then try to make sure that the danger is not there if the child is too young to comprehend it.

why would a teacher be caring for your 2 year old - that's your job. Teachers don't generally have the problem of children running out into the road as they don't tend to teach lessons at the roadside.

kat2504, thank you for pointing out that I'm someone in support of abuse, that you know my child better than me and that I'm a bad parent. I humbly accept that and will now try to be a better parent.

cornsillx - totally missed my point. Thankfully kat2504 is much brighter and understood where I was coming from, perhaps not a bad teacher for my DS to have after all. :)

I don't think I know your child better than you. I just don't think hitting any child with sticks will improve their behaviour.
Hitting people with sticks is abuse. That is why it is banned in this country. So if you are in favour if it, you are in favour of abuse.

Fortunately your DS will never have a teacher in this country who abuses him with sticks. We tend to focus on encouraging and rewarding good behaviour. I'm not saying that there aren't some serious problems with discipline in some schools. I am saying that child abuse will not solve those problems, which are mostly social deprivation problems in their nature.

kat2504 - what if the situation involves a child in school who is hurting other children? Does not stop no matter what you tell him/her? No outstanding circumstances, the child just enjoys hurting others. One day another child is seriously injured by the child because school uses all the softly softly approach rather than caning? Or would you say you've never come across this scenario in your school(s)?

Look, it does not matter what the child is doing. We are not allowed to cane them and pretty much no teacher would want to. If the child is continually hurting other children and no other sanction worked, they would eventually be excluded from the school.
Caning would not stop another child being injured, as it has not been proven to be an effective deterrent. It does not exactly convey the message that hitting people is wrong.
In the case of a continually violent child, especially if that child is young, alarm bells would be ringing in my head about their home life. Often they are witnessing/victim to violence in the home.

I was at school at a time when caning was still allowed, it was always the same boys who were sent to the head to get it. It was no deterent to them at all, they saw it as a badge of honour, look how hard I am, just got the cane and have a smile on my face.

As ninjagoose says, caning was pretty much a punishment for boys. Not always but mostly. So the message is that it is ok to abuse male children with sticks but not really ok for girls?

Thankfully this is a purely hypothetical discussion as it isn't ever going to happen.

ninja, what school is that?! No one in my school ever smiled after being caned. I've never been caned at school but would not dream of seeing it as badge of honour.

kat, so when a child has been seriously injured, or worse dies. Then the child will finally be excluded from school. Thanks for clarification. I rest my case.

Can I use a cane on our new headteacher? To quote my late father, "A self made man who worshipshis creator". Needs a good thrashing!

For fucks sake. Children killing each other in school is not really very likely and children have actually been permanently excluded for a lot less than seriously injuring someone.
I am leaving this discussion now because it is pointless. The law is there to protect children and that is why we are not allowed to abuse them with sticks in school. Education professionals do not want to hit them with sticks anyway. It simply isn't going to happen so I am not going to get my blood pressure up any more about this.

It still saddens me that someone wants to treat their own child that way though. I hope if you ever do cane him he has the guts to tell one of his teachers at school.

timeto, they did I'm afraid, I'm sure it hurt like hell but it was the done thing to come out of the heads office full of bravado. It certainly didn't stop the same boys from misbehaving again.

kat, it was always the boys at my school, I don't actually remember any of the girls getting the cane, it was much more common for girls to get a weeks worth of detentions.

wow kat, do you think I'm a lawbreaker or something? Of course I won't cane him as it's not allowed. (but thanks for trying to turn my child against me already by wishing he would report me if I did) Being caned as a child has taught me to follow rules and regulations, obey authorities when deemed right, to respect people and never accuse others of untruths, or be rude etc. which you have done a little within this discussion. Sorry I got your blood pressure up, not my intention whatsoever as I had just wanted a little discussion/debate as I honestly don't understand why caning is not allowed and trying to see it from others perspective.

why on earth do you need to smack a two year old who runs into the road? If you can reach to smack, you can reach to pull him back - so what's the need for hitting?

The one time my dd did that, I grabbed her back and shouted 'never EVER do that again' - the shock of that is enough! I struggle to see the logic of hurting them so that they won't get hurt.