Correcting spelling mistakes in schools

[Titbits]

Please help...I have started an epetition on the governments website.
My local primary school tells me that they don't correct all my children's spelling mistakes because too much red pen is discouraging! Surely it would be better to focus on ENcouraging them to spell correctly...and making them feel proud of their work?
Ofsted are actively promoting this approach even though friends in further education and the business world tell me that they throw away any applications from students with poor spelling.
It seems that in secondary school, spelling errors aren't corrected at all.
Call me old fashioned (!) but copying out a spelling mistake three times at the bottom of the page was how I improved my spelling. Weekly spelling tests seem irrelevant if the children then aren't taught to use the correct spelling in a body of text.

Hope you will help..enough names will mean it's discussed in Parliament. Link below:

epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/10821

I don't think anyone is trying to argue that good spelling makes you a better person Festi.
Why are there so many chips on shoulders about use of language on MN in general? And insistence that it doesn't really matter?

Not really, Purits - at any one time on Active Convos, there will be more education bashing threads than doctor/electrician bashing.

Your comments regarding your profession are very unconvincing, btw.

Just saying.

no Katisha I agree. But it may at a young age dishearten a child or young person and actually affect thier over all aitnment, If they are corrected and picked up on every spelling mistake, rather than what is relevent to the criteria of a peice of work or smaller Individual goals. I know no one on this particular thread is saying that, but I think it can affect the self esteem of a youngster, and you are right there are far too many posters on MN who do actually judge and make derogitory comments on other posters use of language and spelling, that is judging a person against for thier education and making assumptions about the worthyness of an individual.

I think my points are as follows :

We shouldnt be talking about the very young here. For this reason, and for reasons of it being generally woolly, I have not signed the petition.

When they are older I would like to see a more systematic marking system.

Teachers ought to stop being defensive and talk to parents about why they adopt the stance they do, as many parents evidently are not getting it. You can't just say "oh you are education-bashing" - if a parent is unhappy with their child's progress then they have to be engaged with, not written off as teacher-bashers. I know that everyone feels they are an expert having been to school themselves, but there is also the issue of parents not understanding current educational theory. And is current educational theory always necessarily right?

No spelling isn't everything, but surely something has to be done to protect the young person against their job application being put straight in the reject pile because of their use of language?

There will always be special cases of untapped potential (see science story) or learning difficulties, but they can't be used to prove that most children should not be encouraged to exercise more discipline in their writing/use dictionaries/check spellings. Especially at secondary level.

Scary - your system, which sounds good, only works for kids who have been identified as dyslexic. Which is a small subset of the kids who are dyslexic.

And especially when starting primary - no kids will yet have been identified as being dyslexic. But even at secondary, there will be many, many kids who meet the criteria, but have never seen an EP to get a diagnosis.

Just heard that my school are reviewing their approach as we speak and apparently I 'don't need to worry' ....so fingers crossed.
It is unfortunate that an applicant is rejected just for spelling and language, but if you're faced with 20 applicants for one position, and they all seem equally bright and enthusiastic, how else would you start to discount candidates?
Mine is essentially a call for effective teaching of the basics...

....also don't you think it's worrying that applicants think so little of correct spelling that they wouldn't think to check their forms for errors?
Children should realise from a young age that correct spelling...and grammar ...speaking clearly.. etc are all important tools for them to learn.

Iheartkingthistle....no need for teachers to get defensive...having a go at the system not the teachers. Although it is true I have come across a few who can't spell...but most of my kids teachers have been fantastic.

Feenie....I'll reiterate and say again...the info about Ofsted and secondary schools came from teachers...I didn't think I needed to doubt their truthfullness.
Can I also say that re missing apostrophes, I type so frequently and the apostrophes are added by the iPad ....so I no longer think to add them for myself! This is part of my worry ....that autospellcheck will only add to the problem for kids.

In fact must request that they turn it off on the school computers ...good idea thank you!

Don't want to start a private spat on this thread but I don't understand your post Feenie

You said "point me in the direction of all the doctor/electrician bashing threads" so I did. However this isn't enough and you have moved the goalposts - I now have to do a statistical analysis to prove that there are more teacher-bashing threads.
Can I suggest that instead of feeling all hurt and aggrieved and unloved you think a bit more introspectively about why parents feel the need to 'bash' teachers.

You also said, "Your comments regarding your profession are very unconvincing." I don't know what to say about that! What was unconvincing? I don't want to out myself so I tend to keep comments on MN about my personal life very vague, if that is alright with you.
In a nutshell, my job is to gather information for decisionmakers. The decision makers make decisions, which can be unpopular, based on my data. I get blamed because people like to shoot the messenger.

Reading back it seems to me that most people think the basics are important and most people seem to think that the results aren't meeting expectations....so can't we all sign the petition so that maybe something can be done about it??

It would need rewording I think Titbits - it's too vague and woolly to be taken very seriously - just sounds like one parent's rant backed up by the opinion of a friend.

'Feenie....I'll reiterate and say again...the info about Ofsted and secondary schools came from teachers...I didn't think I needed to doubt their truthfullness.'

But Titbits plenty of teachers on this thread have told you that the info you have about Ofsted and Sec schools is not correct. You're choosing to believe one set of teachers over another...that's your look-out but perhaps you'll consider independently verifying that information for yourself so that you can be confident in what you're saying.

I also feel duty bound to point out that 'reiterate and say again' is a tautology and that 'truthfullness' is an incorrect spelling. Sorry.

I agree with spelling corrections in schools. But it should not be done in a bullying way. The child should be tested to its ability when young. And not asked to spell that notorious welsh village.

On Mumsnet spelling buffs drive people off who have interesting things to say. After all even a spelling wizard is not good at everything. We all have our strenths (thats the way it should be spelt) and weaknesses....

I gather some teacjers are not brilliant spellers. Its ok if they have 3 degrees in everything else.

For goodness sake who is a bright as stephen Fry or Dr Jonathan Millar. (I dont know if those two brainboxes can spell.....they can SPEIL brilliantly)

The point is it DOES matter when it comes to getting a job.

And I am pretty unimpressed with teachers who don't spell properly on things I have to see. What they do on MN/wherever is not my business.

Also, so many things connected with business, like leaflets, brochures, etc have poor spelling and grammar in them nowadays. Do we really have to accept this as a state of affairs that we can't/shouldn't address, and just say that doesn't really matter anyway?

KATISHA Getting a job? Point taken spelling matters in most (not all jobs) I have never dug ditches)

Spelling matters; but it aint the only thing; and all-rounders on subjects are pretty rare. In the right write mood I am pretty good at writing in a serious/jokey manner. (But dont ask me to climb a ladder, hit a golf ball or seduce countless women...Too old.)

Grammar can be non disciplined (Waugh accused Muggeridge of peculiar punctuation) But st Mugg was bril in his way.
You and I are not miles apart Katisha.

No we're not! But I am NOT saying that spelling is all that matters. Why would I say that?

But I am saying that it is surely more important than current educational theory would lead us to believe. Pupils have to get into the habit of discipline. Again, before anyone says but what about creativity, they do not have to be mutually exclusive. I think pupils are being let down - there - I've said it.

I think encouraging good writing habits, especially in secondary school, can only be a plus. Why do my school-leaver nieces have no apparent concept of how to use an apostrophe? Or their/they're/there? How does this make them any more creative than if they did?
Anyway I'll shut up now as am hogging the thread.

Do we really have to accept this as a state of affairs that we can't/shouldn't address, and just say that doesn't really matter anyway?

No, we absolutely shouldn't. The world our children will inherit is likely to be so different to the one we've inhabited that it's hard to imagine. The world's economy is likely to be close to completely globalised. Our children's single biggest advantage in that economy is that they will be native speakers of the world's main business language. It would be in their interests if they can capitalise on this and not have to write "I could of got a job at googul if I cud spell but I carnt so thats why I'm cleaning floors in Bayjing"

*Don't want to start a private spat on this thread but I don't understand your post Feenie.You said "point me in the direction of all the doctor/electrician bashing threads" so I did. However this isn't enough and you have moved the goalposts - I now have to do a statistical analysis to prove that there are more teacher-bashing threads.
Can I suggest that instead of feeling all hurt and aggrieved and unloved you think a bit more introspectively about why parents feel the need to 'bash' teachers."

Blimey, who rattled your cage? I am just pointing out that the number of education bashing threads are always more than doctor/electrician threads. I am not hurt or aggrieved about this, far from it, and you don't have to do anything - it's simply a fact.

Please don't suggest to me what I 'ought' to be thinking -it isn't your place.

It's your perogative whether or not you choose to state your profession, of course - but your comments re your profession are rather irrelevant when you won't state what it is.

P.S. When people on MN give a different opinion from yours, it isn't a personal spat. It's just a Different Opinion.

There are ways to correct spelling without discouraging a child with tons of red pen. My grade one (that's year one here) teacher had us write in our journals and draw an accompanying picture most days. We would get our journals back with a comment from her. If I had written "Today I went to the parc and played with my sistur" she would reply with something like: "I hope you had fun at the park with your sister!" I didn't realize until years later looking through my old books that she had done this, but I think it's genius. What a simple, effective and respectful way to reinforce proper spelling.

OP you're just not taking on board what people are saying to you.

I'm out.

Indigo - we had a fantastic SENCO, so had all the info. Agree not everyone is picked up, but there can be enough clues when marking to suggest to the SENCO that x may need a closer look, especially if there is a big disconnect between the verbal and written ability.

Dh works abroad and he has noticed that employers won't always take native English speakers, especially the younger ones, because they don't consider them to be well educated enough, including their mastery of English.

Bue.....that's brilliant....red pen ...green pen.....pictures....whatever, just want the child to know that their is a mistake to address x

Bue ....sorry .....that THERE is a mistake to address.....anyone know how to turn autospellcheck off on an iPad??

Have to watch out for those pedants!

Katisha....problem with epetitions is that you're only allowed a few characters, so you have to try and make an argument as briefly as you can...they are just meant to raise the issue for discussion, not present both sides at this stage. Seems to me that spelling in schools is an issue that lots of mums would like to see discussed.