Correcting spelling mistakes in schools

[Titbits]

Please help...I have started an epetition on the governments website.
My local primary school tells me that they don't correct all my children's spelling mistakes because too much red pen is discouraging! Surely it would be better to focus on ENcouraging them to spell correctly...and making them feel proud of their work?
Ofsted are actively promoting this approach even though friends in further education and the business world tell me that they throw away any applications from students with poor spelling.
It seems that in secondary school, spelling errors aren't corrected at all.
Call me old fashioned (!) but copying out a spelling mistake three times at the bottom of the page was how I improved my spelling. Weekly spelling tests seem irrelevant if the children then aren't taught to use the correct spelling in a body of text.

Hope you will help..enough names will mean it's discussed in Parliament. Link below:

epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/10821

The problem also stems from the fact that many teachers can't spell either. As a teacher with O levels, I was constantly astounded and appalled by the spelling mistakes made by my younger colleagues with GCSEs.

I also think that standards of literacy have declined; my brother went through school three years after I did, and when Mum queried what was done about correcting spelling (and this was 82/83, just before he went into year 9) she was told that they didn't really matter any more.

Having been a GCSE examiner for 9 years, I can also see that standards of literacy have declined.

Two points about marking:
1: I always mark in green; not so aggressive.
2: Teachers will know who amongst their students is dyslexic and will temper their marking accordingly.

and the third point...teachers should be actively modelling the use of a dictionary in class, as should parents at home. A good dictionary doesn't cost the earth, and is available when the internet goes down!

Those I know with children in Preps have routine spelling tests, often 3 times a week it seems! Yet these apparently have been proven not to work? Spelling forgotten the next day? It's the private schools that get the highest GCSE results (for lots of reasons I know) but is this sort of 'old fashioned' academic rigour, with clear consequences if the work hasn't been done and high expectations not one of the reasons?

Have to also say that I've not come across a state primary teacher yet that hasn't made spelling mistakes, sorry. My friends tell me this isn't important and I'm missing the bigger picture? People generally read much less, I wonder if that's a factor?

Scary - I'm not sure how teachers will know if a student is dyslexic or not.

After all almost any kid who is bad at spelling can go to a private EP and get a report saying they're dyslexic.....

Seriously, how on earth can you tell if a child is a bad speller or if they are dyslexic? One criteria for diagnosing dyslexia is a discrepancy between their spelling age and their reading age......

Indigo (sorry about to go a little OT) something very strange happened to me re: spelling. Up to the age of about ten my handwritten was indecipherable, I mean probably worse than the average six year olds. My spelling was worse, shocking. They assumed I was dim. I was very articulate, the content of my written work was excellent for my age and showed real promise but it was spoilt by poor presentation so this wasn't often picked up on. My reading age was always around 3-4 years ahead of my chronological age (in certain years more so)and comprehension very advanced.

When I was around 14-15 it seemed that I could suddenly spell very well and my handwriting looked almost as you might expect. I've often wondered if I suffered from some sort of condition? Odd if so that it seemed to correct itself? I couldn't easily see the logic/patterns in maths and my attainment was always far behind the rest of my peers. Can you be a good reader and dyslexic? Can you overcome dyslexic difficulties in time/'recover' or is a condition that stays with you for life? It's in my family but the difference was I could always read with no problem at all.

I would prefer my DD's spelling to be corrected. In our case it has nothing to do with confidence but more with being lazy and not bothered to get the dictionary out and check the spelling, which is what we do with homework.

Cortina - there isn't one defn of dyslexia. There are many. So you can be dyslexic and a good reader. Just depends which defn you use......

Here is one defn of dyslexia;

Dyslexia can be described as a continuum of difficulties in learning to read, write and/ or spell, which persist despite the provision of appropriate learning opportunities. These difficulties often do not reflect an individual's cognitive abilities and may not be typical of performance in other areas.

I haven't read all the posts here, but I wanted to respond to the OP as it made me very angry. The idea that all children should have all spelling mistakes corrected is ridiculous and would be hugely counter-productive in many cases.

I have taught children who really struggled with spelling but put huge amounts of effort into their work and wrote very imaginatively and skillfully. If I had corrected every incorrect spelling and asked them to write it 5 times it probably would have taken them 40 minutes each day. There would be so many words they'd have no chance of remembering them individually. And after the first day would probably have written something along the lines of 'I like school. It is good. I go to school with my friends' rather than the wonderful work they were capable of. As it was, I corrected the most basic spelling mistakes (starting with 'I' in one case), made them write them and practise them until they knew them, praised them for getting them right and only then moved on to slightly more difficult words. Slow and steady, but it did wonders for their confidence and they made progress.

OP, I really think that if you could see the improvements that children make when they are allowed to take pride in their work (rather than having red pen all over it) I think you would change your mind.

Cortina - it's totally possible that you have dyslexia.

monoid the level of literacy in 1948 was not significantly different to the level of literacy in the 1950s which in turn was not significantly different to the level of literacy in the 1960s which you've guessed it wasn't significantly different to literacy levels in the 1970s or the 1980s or the 1990s or indeed literacy levels at the moment... It fluctuates by 1 or 2% so in the days when spellings were drilled and marked in red and pupils caned for errors it didn't make the slightest difference.

I agree! Petition signed I was dreadful at spelling until I reached secondary school when it all clicked into place. I think if a child makes a mistake then that should be corrected. If they make the same mistake for a while and it is not corrected as it's not thought to be an important word for them to spell they will think that it is right. It is harder to break bad habits than to form good ones.

sorry, I think you're totally wrong on this one

If I corrected every spelling mistakes the childrens' work in my class would be more red pen than pencil (yr2)!

I correct high frequency words which the children are expected to know by the end of yr2, anything else tends to get left, except if the child is exceptional, then their work is corrected accordingly (ie they are expected to get more complicated words correct).

If I scrawled all over their work every time they would end up hating writing - not my aim at all.

drcrab I have asked the OP which age group she would like this law to apply to but haven't received an answer.
Any university student submitting an academic piece of writing without using spell check is just lazy and apathetic.

Thanks so much Indigo, it's something I never considered.

purits Tue 06-Sep-11 09:19:05

If there is such a disjunction between children's verbal and written skills then why are teachers asking children to write down their stories? Why not make creative story telling a verbal exercise? Learning how to write (forming letters) and how to spell should be a separate exercise.

You have described what happens in most schools. Why do teachers ask children to write down stories? ... I can picture the MN thread now sign my petition now make children write

Petition signed. Thanks OP

Onehellofaride, are you seroiously saying that you believe that a 6yr old who has attempted a beautiful piece of creative writing using fabulous vocabulary which they can imagine but not yet spell then they should expect every other word to be corrected on that piece? Even though they have used words well above the level of spelling expected of a 6yr old?

Because that's what young children do. They use words verbally and in their writing which they cannot yet spell. This is not education failing because your average 6yr old is not yet expected to be able to spell words like gigantic. Yet that's a word frequently used in the story writing of a 6yr old. If you hand back a piece of work which 18 spelling corrected, it will take the child about an hour to write them all out and you'll achieve little in the way of retention. All you'll do is make them more wary of using exciting but tricky words next time.

Just one thought for those who say that standards have fallen and back in the day everyone could spell. My mother passed the 11+ with flying colours in 1951, despite the fact that she cannot spell at all, in any way.

I've asked her about it, and apparantly correct spelling only accounted for a very small percentage of the overall mark. Though she must have got zero, it didn't stop her being ranked as one of the highest passes in her area.

So even 60 years ago, spelling wasn't the be all and end all of everything . . .

carpetlover I think that children should be praised for the work they do. They should know that what they have done is fantastic and be given a gold star but I also think that they should be told what mistakes they have made. This doesn't have to be writing it out ten times just a gentle pointer to maybe write it down correctly in a book so that they have it there if they want to use it again (which incidentally will also teach referencing skills which will be valuable throughout life as no one knows everything).

Why stop there? Why not just keep everyone back a year who can't spell?

And if they still don't learn to spell, well just keep them back again.

Isn't that what they do in France? And the US?

My first job was in a pre-prep school where bad spelling was 'not allowed'. Incorrect spellings were to be corrected and written out three times (rising to five times as they got older). Words the children didn't think they knew they asked the teacher to write in their word books for them. Weekly spelling tests were the norm from Year 1. The result, a school with fantastic reading and maths SATs in Key Stage 1 and appalling writing SATs. The headteacher was even very unsure when I introduced 'have-a-go' wordbooks in my Year 2 class, where the children either had the correct spelling written or a smiley face drawn next to the word they had attempted. These children could not produce a flowing piece of writing because they were having to constantly interrupt themselves to check on their spelling. Their spelling when it came to doing an unaided piece of writing for KS1 writing SATs was by and large appalling. They also found it hard to concentrate on doing a sustained piece of writing without asking for help.Their books (which the parents loooked at of course) were beautifully presented, and any spellings copied out three times. But they were not good spellers. There was a definitely a relationship between having to copy out lots of corrections anfd then asking the teacher to spell the word for you next time instead.

I have asked the OP which age group she would like this law to apply to but haven't received an answer.

Me neither - am still waiting for the OP to copy out her corrected punctuation 3 times! Seems it's one rule for some.....

In the 'old days' there was limited TV, no computer games etc & children generally read much more. I would hazard a guess that more boys in the 40s and 50s might have had a crack at Treasure Island and more would have would have been members of libraries etc? This would mean there was more exposure to text and all the advantages this brings, story structure being subconsciously absorbed & internalised etc.

If you wanted to communicate with a friend or someone in authority etc you wrote a letter. Most would have a reasonable knowledge of how to write one and spelling and grammar would so have perhaps been more important than it is now? If you didn't want to show yourself up you'd reach for a dictionary and so your spelling would over time incrementally improve perhaps?

I would have thought this would have had a positive influence on spelling/grammar/literacy compared to now?

How long do you think it would take said 6yr old to copy out each mistake even once? And when are they going to do it? There is certainly not a spare half hour in the class day so should they be sent home?

Also, how much time would it take to discuss and go over the said 15 or 20 spelling mistakes (at least) usually found in the stories of 6yr olds? This would really be a whole lesson in itself but that wouldn't work either because the spellings needing discussed would be individual to each child.

So you're back to marking them all wrong and giving the piece of work back. No 6yr old is going to see the praise at the bottom. All they will see is red or green plastered all over their effort and it will make them feel deflated.

I'd like to ask; do you think that if a child is able to verbally use a word or use it in their writing then they should be able to spell it? Because this is the point I am trying to make. One is almost always far more advanced than the other and I don't believe it's right to hold back their creativity until they can spell adequately.

I'm honestly shocked that you don't want them to have their mistakes pointed out!
My daughter has only two years to master good spelling before hitting secondary school...correcting one or two words per piece of writing leaves a lot of words unmastered. And what if she's spelling the same words wrong over and over....can't see much progress in that.
Surely school is about progress an achievement and preparing you for the outside world...?
And either her last teacher was lying, or it is true that she wasn't allowed to Mark all the incorrect spellings!!