Term-time holidays - please sign my e-petition.

[pinarollo]

This is a topic that comes up again and again. It's largely too late for me - I've stuck to the rules but it has made family holidays so difficult - and looking back, the ones we have had have been some of the most precious times.

I have thought that the key to getting it changed is moderate change made in conjunction with schools and parents. I have proposed a sensible alteration to term-time holidays rules.

If you would like to see term time holiday rules relaxed a little within sensible limits, please look at my e-petition but please also send the link to as many people you know who may be inclined to support this.

epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/6412

Thanks

Pinarollo

It's clear from what mrz posted that heads are encouraged to disallow termtime holidays unless there is an exceptional reason.

Personally I had to take unauthorised absence to take my DCs to a family wedding for one day - my school does not grant discretionary leave under any non-medical circumstances that I've ever heard of , but then AFAIK they don't fine for disobedience.

That is the law Dilys. Maximum 10 days save in exceptional circumstances. Heads are encouraged to stay within the law but should not have a blanket ban.

The main issue (as someone who has to decide to authorise/not authorise) is that one person's exceptional circumstances is another's 'tough luck'.

Actually saggar, it's up to 10 days if you have a special reason, more than 10 in the most exceptional circs.
The point is that the law clearly defines fancying a holiday at a cheaper time of year as tough luck (and as a non-flyer I'm with the law on this one).

lol @ Ragwort & WhenIgetto3.
I do not get this obsession (?British?) with annual holidays at all. Except it can't be British... I know loads of people who haven't had any type of away-from-home hol in years .
Don't schools get penalised for absences, so regardless of reason (authorised holiday or illness), it counts against the school? A petition to do away with the penalty sounds like a good thing.

I know the law. I said 'Maximum 10 days save in exceptional circumstances' which I think is the same as ' up to 10 days if you have a special reason, more than 10 in the most exceptional circs'. But let's not be picky.

Yes - cheap holiday is not seen as either special or exceptional circumstances. I pretty much agree with that.

ragged please note my family have not had a holiday this year and any person seen screaming at 4 children with a drunk DH was not me.

I like nice camping holidays exploring the countryside. We don't always take a holiday but if DH has been away for 6 months then being outside of the home environment is a nice way to get to know him again, hence we have taken term time holidays in the past (soon to be curtailed as the DC get older). As we are a service family it doesn't affect any OfSted report on the school, does not register the same way as with any exceptional circumstances case. A petition to do away with the penalty would be a good thing, maybe the OP needs to rewrite their petition to say that is what they are getting at as it is badly worded and does not make that clear.

So, ragwort you had a good time then?

Yes pinarollo I'm a teacher and I can tell you a large percent of my class had term time holidays authorised by the school.

If I gave that impression Dilys I must apologise as it isn't true ... heads are not encouraged to disallow term time holidays (unless the child is frequently absent at other times)

Mrz, the guidelines you posted talk about "using discretion sparingly" and state that holiday price is not a good enough reason, so I'd say that counts as encouraging them to disallow.

It's pretty heated at DC's school because a few parents taking children out in termtime will be the sole cause of the school losing their highly prized Ofsted Outstanding rating, which is why they operate zero tolerance - I don't think that's fair of Ofsted, but given that it's the way things are I also think it's horribly selfish of the parents.

Sorry Dilys I don't see "sparingly" as meaning "encouraged to disallow" ... In reality it would probably mean that if you request ten days in September you wouldn't be granted another ten days in June if requested.

The guidance also advises that each application is considered on a case by case basis (?blanket? policies are unacceptable) within the context of the school?s published attendance policy.

Ten days authorised holiday (per child) would not prevent the school from being Outstanding as overall absenteeism rate would still be within acceptable limits

The latest OFSTED guidance says

proportions of pupils with particular levels of attendance, for example below 85% or above 95%, and whether these proportions are changing

Ofsted Inspecting Attendance Guidance 2011

My petition seems to have some opponents because it is asking for the situation that currently exists. However my use of the word targets was my best guess at the central policy that was creating the clampdown. It may be OFSTED rating fears or whatever - how am I as a humble parent supposed to know?

I'm going to be very careful not to identify my school because giving adverse publicity to a fantastic school is not what I want. However - this school , at the time we last requested term time leave - did appear to be rejecting highly reasonable requests (Friday afternoon to attend a family wedding, the last week of the year to do a trip not available at other times, a week to go on holiday for the child of parents who had to compete for school holiday leave etc.).

As mentioned above, friends did decide to go down the 'unauthorised' route in desperation and promptly received a standardised truancy letter.

This was at the same time as term-time holidays were prominently in the news and ministers were muttering about them. So...I'm certainly not making this up.

Perhaps my petition could have been worded better. But remember, I am not in the system and was not in a position to know the policy backgrounds to what was happening.

I certainly think the whole area needs looking at - among the parents I know who support their school wholeheartedly I think it's probably our biggest grumble.

I'm not opposed to your petition I just think it's pretty pointless asking for something that exists already and is effectively and sensitively managed in most schools. Perhaps you would be better advised organising a petition for the parents of children who attend your school.

You probably know best mrz, I just read it the other way. Not sure of my school's precise numbers - I suspect (perhaps unfairly) that they have a hard core of absentees who will not respond to any pressure (and do not have any money to pay fines, after school club arrears etc) which are making their attendance figures so bad that only zero tolerance on the rest of us gives them a hope of balancing the books.

Does absence due to sickness count in the Ofsted calculations?

I had a child in my class who was granted ten days in September then continued to have almost every Friday and Monday off throughout the year ... a request for a weeks leave in June was turned down. (both parents are unemployed so this wasn't an issue) ... the child is also absent once a fortnight when they go to sign on ...

Yes any absence counts but they look at patterns such as I described above ...

All absence counts Dilys. Even religious absence that as a school we can't refuse (and nor should we). Last year my school's religious absence mean't we only got Satisfactory for our attendance. It's not a fair playing field. It used to be that we were only judged on unauthorised absences but that is not the case now.

As far as heads being discouraged from authorising holiday absence I would say that that is definitely the case in our LA. They advise us to let parents know that requests are unlikely to be authorised.

mrz - just out of interest, does an afternoon off (say pick up at 1pm) count as an absence. Only asking as when my DH is on op tour next year I will have to take my youngest out of school at 1 on a Friday to pick up older ones from their school every third week when it is either exeat or end of term. So I guess in a 6 month period this will mean approx. 8 Friday afternoons out of school, we were then thinking of taking a family holiday together during the older ones half term (when DH gets back) which is different to hers, I don't want to use all my 10 days on Friday afternoons and then be refused a holiday at the end of it and cannot see that I would imaginably get my youngest into school every day when daddy arrives home and older 3 siblings are also all home.

Well if sickness counts then the girl in DDs class who's taken about 12 months off in her school career (genuinely sick) is probably not doing the school any favours .

whenI - if it's primary where they only have a morning and afternoon registration, then collecting just after the afternoon register is taken would mean that your youngest would probably get a 'present' mark. Even though you will be signing them out shortly after.

Dilys - it depends. If the child is in hospital or absent for lengthy periods then they can get input from an LA/hospital tutor and get an 'Educated offsite' mark. Chronic illness is an issue for schools. My dd has chronic ill health so I have experience of it from both sides.

saggar thanks I will ask closer to the time when their registration is in the afternoon and try and play the system. I am already panicking about it and it is a year away yet, I do hate my 6 month single mum to 4 periods . I would however, also think that daddy being away for 6 months would count as a pretty exceptional circumstance to reasonably ask for a holiday. The school are also very accommodating to its only military family and willing to help when needed