Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

Single sex schools

35 replies

IslaValargeone · 26/07/2011 15:58

Is there anyone 'in the know' who can direct me to any recent research in single sex education, especially in relation to girls. I had been led to believe that it was quite beneficial for girls but my friend thinks I'm 'off my head' to be considering it. Her argument hasn't gone any further than girls are horrible bullies so you need a balance of the two sexes, so I would like to read more.

OP posts:
TalkinPeace2 · 30/07/2011 22:30

Xenia
You clearly do not write the cheque for your own children's fees
www.nlcs.org.uk/Scholarships_Bursaries/Fees.php
looks a lot nearer £15,000.00 per child per year NOT including uniform, trips, music and extras to me
which means having a SPARE £25,000.00 of after tax income
NOT something that exists much outside morth London

Xenia · 31/07/2011 07:16

Well Haberdashers wehre one of the girls went is still just about £10k in the juniors. We always got (as do many parents) the uniform from the second hand uniform sale. - www.habsgirls.org.uk/general.php?area=admissions&page_id=2

Even if someone just earns the salary of a teacher on £30k or a senior nurse it is not impossible to use that salary to pay most of 2 chidlren's private schools fees and schools like this are keen to get very bright but poor children in and some have help with fees. It is not impossible if you realyl want to do it like most things in life.

TalkinPeace2 · 31/07/2011 13:43

£30k a year family
take home pay £20k
less mortgage of £2k (if you are lucky)
utilities £1k
food £2k
car £1k
clothes £1k
balance = £13k
before saving for a pension, holiday, music lessons, any other things that make life worthwhile
let alone £20k of school fees

Xenia - your numbers just prove to me that you do not pay your own bills.

I do pay my bills. I know that I cannot afford private school. I do know that I have afforded to get my kids into an excellent state school, pay for their music, tennis, dancing and ridin glessons and give them the overseas holidays that will prevent them having a xenophobic outlook.

Xenia · 31/07/2011 14:37

Well plenty of people manage to pay.
I pay all bills (single parent).

mrz · 01/08/2011 09:27

Xenia with respect you don't fit in the "average" single parent category so your experience is not that of the majority of the population.

GrimmaTheNome · 01/08/2011 17:39

Anyway, the single-sex school the OP is considering is a grammar so we don't need to be sidelined with a discussion on school fees here. Smile
As with the 'top' schools cited by xenia, if you're looking in the state sector there's usually a disproportionate number of single sex schools near the head of those tables too (mostly grammars, inevitably)

moonbells · 03/08/2011 10:55

OK back to the original question :) and my own experiences as well as some research links.

I went to a mixed comp for my first 2 years of secondary and single-sex comp for the latter 5.
The mixed (ex-grammar, still run by the old GS headmaster) had a very competitive setup, with class and exam marks being given as percentages with position in form being put on all reports, every term. I found sexism quite rife - I was consistently marked down in one subject despite the content of my work being identical to that of higher-marked boys. I remember mum pointing out that they wouldn't dare do that in the exams - it would be content only. I came top.
In sciences and maths, the boys as a group loathed that I would sit on the front bench and answer questions when most of the girls would cluster at the back and giggle. (Most of the girls thought I was bats for doing this too). But the urge to beat them kept me wanting to learn more even though it was frustrating at the time.

When I went to the GS at 13 it was a breath of fresh air. At last nobody was there to stop me simply because I was a girl who liked sciences and maths. But it had a twist. No competitiveness. 'Unfeminine'. No continual drive to be top as marks were ABCD not percents so you couldn't ever say you were top. So you stopped trying to a certain extent. I am sure to this day I lost my edge and had to find it again by myself when I got to 6th form.

(Today I am a career physicist with a PhD so I got where I wanted to be, but I still wish I'd had better school support!)

There's also the fact that boys and girls (in general) learn vastly differently due to differences in physiology. Boys respond better to moving teachers, barked questions, confrontational teaching, and much colder classrooms! Girls tend to need much more (gentle? condescending?) methods. On recent research, I would recommend you look up the research of Dr Leonard Sax. Loads of excerpts on Google. A lot is on why to educate boys separately but of course you can apply the converse to girls.
eg www.dcs.wisc.edu/pda/boysandgirls/ (an overview of some courses he leads)
www.leonardsax.com/ his own website stating some differences between the genders and links to writings.

Life outside school is mixed, and most companies are still run by men on the boys school model. Something which a lot of women find hard to deal with. Mixed schools are here a compromise which does allow both boys and girls to know what to expect, but at what cost? Not knowing if they'd have been better at an ungirly science/mathsy subject (or a boy at a girly one such as language, social science or history?)

I am sending my son to a boys school. He has a bossy personality, tons of confidence and needs to be engaged. So I think he's got the right personality to fit in. But if he'd been gentle and hated contact play and loved things like ballet (which he won't do at nursery cos it's girly!) then I'd have looked at mixed. Bottom line: depends on the child. Only you know what would work there!

Xenia · 03/08/2011 11:31

I like that my 3 boys right from age 4 have been with other boys only. They work at boy pace. No one is "wrong" or naughty because they are a normal boy rather than a girl. You still get huge differences bewteen boys even my twins - some more bookish some more sporty but lots of teachers are male and they won't find themselves behind girls who have reached puberty earlier etc
My daughters also were at single sex schools .

As I said above the bottom line is virtually every school in the top 20 in this country is single sex. moonbell's experience reflects that of a lot of schools these days which don't go in for places and who is first but even so surely everyone knows who is best even if it's not said and individual girls are very competitive so I don't think my girls lost out on competitiveness at North London C and Habs.

They have siblings of both genders and they do / did lots of things out of school which involve the opoosite sex so I didn't feel their failure to be having sex with 2 boys at school from age 13 was a particularly disadvantage (and of course some children whether they are in a mixed school or not will always have sex but I suspect you can let them move more at their own pace in a school where there is only their own sex.

GrimmaTheNome · 03/08/2011 11:32

moonbells - I think what would have suited you best would have been a single-sex grammar like my DDs, rather than mixed gs or single-sex comp.

moonbells · 03/08/2011 13:26

Yes, I would have loved to be in a single-sex grammar but our Labour-led county council (Derbyshire) had been one of the first to get shot of them. Mum did want to send me to a day private school but no way could they afford it.

Agree that places like NLCS and Habs will not lose competitiveness! But a second-rate comp which the council was desperately trying to close by showing there were better results at mixed schools? (Playing with children's futures is definitely not new!)

It was a grammar once, as was the mixed one, but in both my schools while I was there, the old head (literally in both cases) had to retire, with all the grammar experience, and new younger ones were brought in with 'progressive' ideas. Both wound up the schools and both closed within a few years of my leaving when the entire system was turned mixed + 6th form college instead of several 11-16 schools and two 13-18s. (This is Chesterfield in the mid-80s). Now the boy's school (Chesterfield School) which was great is now a sports college. The girls (St Helena) is shut.

sigh sometimes I wonder if they realise they're cutting off their noses to spite their faces...

Then again I can also argue about Grammar/Sec modern vs comp, too, and quals by coursework vs exams-at-end! Mum was Grammar & scholarship and my Dad failed the 11+ and had to leave at 14 to help the family. Yet it's Dad who is the maths genius and from whom I got my ability. He simply couldn't do exams. It took me decades to convince him of his own worth. Coursework would have been a boon for him. Mum could somehow pass exams despite being hopeless at anything scientific!

There is no such thing as one size fits all.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page