Changes to holidays - debate on woman's hour

[fivecandles]

Apparently Nottingham LEA is piloting a change to school holidays such that the long summer holiday is reduced to 4 weeks but the half-terms become 2 weeks long so no time lost in total, just redistributed. I think it's a really good idea for all the reasons given on the programme and I'm a teacher. Anyone else got thoughts?

[jabed]

jpin me on the virtual patio wheresthepimms Enjoy your fun filled summer as I am enjoying mine ( being in an independent school school was out on 30th June).

To quote an old song..... " roll on those hazy, lazy crazy days of summer...."

[jabed]

I am off to do some reasearch fivecandles - into enjoying the summer. Suggest you do the same instead of soundbiting ill thought out stuff of others here.

[wheresthepimms]

FIvecandles a lot of what you are linking to is based on US research where they get just over 3 months off in the summer, how is that comparable to our 6 weeks

[jabed]

Memo to self :
Do not apply for a job with Nottingham LEA any time soon.

[wheresthepimms]

Jabed 2 of mine broke up 2 weeks ago from their independent sector nursery child broke up Tuesday poor yr 2 child broke up today having been in school all week whilst everyone else was at home was his last day before joining older 2 in September so need to go mend some broken hearts with him as friends were all crying so was he and so were all us mums :(

Have a great summer :)

[fivecandles]

Jabed, I think you'll find that most state schools wouldn't touch you with a bargepole given your rather suspect views about children with SEN and your extraordinarly patronising assertions. And for that, I for one am grateful. Do enjoy your summer.

[jabed]

Jabed, I think you'll find that most state schools wouldn't touch you with a bargepole given your rather suspect views about children with SEN and your extraordinarly patronising assertions.

You have said that before fivecandles - run out of new insults there?

I worked in those state schools who wouldnt touch me with a barge pole for a number of years. I have seen deprivation you speak of first hand and I am still of the opinion changing holidays wont fix it.

I do wish you would stop taking about "Four whole weeks" as if its a long time. I had that kind of holiday in industry back in the 1970's! Its a very short time really.

No thank you, I prefer my 9 WHOLE WEEKS in the summer my week and a half in October , my MONTH at Christmas and Easter and my week and a half at Whitsun and not forgetting the short one - a week in February.

Why should I want to change that for four whole weeks in the summer, shorter holidays at Christmas and Easter and two weeks in cold and soggy February?

Summer calls on the patio.

[alemci]

I think both staff and students need the 6 week break. It is the highlight of my year and most other people I know who work in this environment.

Life isn't fair and if the poor kids underachieve why should everyone else have to lose out. I don't think it is comparable to cancer. We are not particularly affluent but we get by. They would probably still get an ASBO in the 2 weeks in February.

I don't want 2 weeks in February. The long 6 week holiday is therapeutic.

[fivecandles]

There is equivalent British research and has been for a while. A paper just out by Institute for Public Policy Research and some stuff by Demos but other stuff too. Just hard to get links to it.

[fivecandles]

alemci, ALL kids suffer academically because of the 6 week holiday.

I think we should care about that. And I think we should care that the people who suffer most are the poor kids through no fault of their own. I think it's a shame that you and others don't care TBH.

[fivecandles]

And call me new fangled and modern, but I would like to think that education policy is informed by the evidence of what best suits the majority of our children rather than the historical agricultural calendar or the individual preferences of a few parents.

[mrz]

ALL kids suffer academically because of the 6 week holiday.

Do they?

[fivecandles]

Jabed, since you work in an independent school which seems to suit you perfectly and where neither you nor your son need be troubled by the likes of poor people or children with SEN, I'd have thought a debate about holidays in state schools is largely irrelevant you anyway.

[jabed]

And call me new fangled and modern, but I would like to think that education policy is informed by the evidence of what best suits the majority of our children

There is no evidence in anything you have presented that suggests the majority of children are suited to the changes you suggest.
There is some limited evidence that a minority of students could be adversly affected by the current system but then again NOTHING overwhelming to suggest than any change would benefit them in the long term

As I asked before fivecandles, and I see you have not replied - why is it you are so hell bent on a mission to change the holidays and see " four whole weeks" as such a long time?

If you want to be a missionary to the under priviledged as you seem to, then perhaps a start would be to set up a free school for these children in an area where you think it is needed and follow the pattern that you advocate the research suggests and make it work for them and you?

Please do not impose it on the rest of us though. I am all for choice.

[fivecandles]

The research (and common sense) suggests they do, mrz, but kids from disadvantaged backgrounds more so. At best they plateau. And middle class kids are often prevented from going downhill by parental or other sorts of interventions.

[fivecandles]

Four weeks IS a long holiday, Jabed.

As you know the 6 week summer holiday was so that children could help bring in the harvest.

Times have changed.

[fivecandles]

Jabed, the evidence IS there. Perhaps you could try reading it.

[fivecandles]

State schools have 13 weeks holiday in total. They would not lose a day.

[fivecandles]

Jabed, you can have your choice in your independent school. Independent schools can choose the holidays you like. So, honestly, it's not a problem for you.

As I say, I would hope that educational policy is determined by what is best for the MAJORITY of our children.

Not the agricultural calendar. And not the personal preferences of a few parents.

[jabed]

Jabed, since you work in an independent school which seems to suit you perfectly and where neither you nor your son need be troubled by the likes of poor people or children with SEN, I'd have thought a debate about holidays in state schools is largely irrelevant you anyway.

But as I have said previously fivecandles, I have worked in schools in very deprived areas and the issue of deprivation does concern me. I just do not think your suggestion is a real solution and the blanket approach of rolling it out for all schools seems rather harsh on many of my colleagues. I fear for their welfare too.

I had not noticed that working in a state school had prevented you from commenting on independent education any, so why should my employment restrict me in having opinions about educational and social issues generally?

As for my own choices of education for my DS - I am not sending him to prep in September as it happens but my DS is not the subject of this discussion and I would thank you to keep cheap shots about my choices for him out of it.

[fivecandles]

Jabed, why do you insist on personalising the debate.

This is not MY idea. It is a proposal by Nottingham LEA.

It has already been successful in a comp in Essex. It may become more popular in academies which can set their own holidays.

[pot39]

If it's not broken don't bloody mend it.
I loved the long hols, my children do and so do the teachers I ask.
School, contrary to Gove's opinion is not childcare, it's for learning and everyone needs a long break to recover, go on hols and prepare for the next year.

[fivecandles]

Of course, you are entitled to your views, Jabed but the fact remains that since you don't work in or use state education and don't seem to show much concern for vulnerable kids, I'm just wondering what your agenda actually is.

[jabed]

ALL kids suffer academically because of the 6 week holiday.

Do they?

Good point . It is an assumption. I would argue from experience that it is a false assumtion. I can certainly say that long holidays do not affect the pupils I teach adversely. I am fairly sure none of them are so focussed as fivecandles might think and do valuable educational things all summer. I know damn well they dont. They enjoy their holidays. As a good teacher ( just as any good teacher) I can work around this anyway. The pupils return all the better and fresher for their time off in my view.

[fivecandles]

Common sense will tell you that most children are not going to be making academic leaps and bounds during the 6 weeks away from school particularly in maths where they're unlikely to get practise. The reseach I have linked to supports that.