Curious: Why do private schools have such long holidays?

[Erebus]

Genuine question- I mean, I know why state schools hols are what they are, more or less (helping with harvests... etc) but why the 8 or 9 weeks, for example, in private? How did that come about? There must be an historic reason seeing as they all pretty much do the same thing, with 17 weeks holiday a year.

Sorry jabed but Bonsoir is correct.

The academic gap between the adavantaged and the disadvantaged widens every summer.
Where disadvantaged DC go backwards in their learning, advantaged DC actually move forwards. The later doesn't happen by making DC have formal lessons of course. It is a natural process often.

This happens summer after summer until the gap is impossible to bridge.

It's for this reason that the KIPP schools in the states have very little holiday. It is accepted that disadvantaged DC need to stop the gap opening up.

Now I too am one of the parents who a. enjoys the long break and b. can afford to ensure my DC do all manner of things...so I'm not complaining. Just commenting.

If a child losessomething in the summer gap , then I am afraid it is because it was not learned in the first place.

Learning is a relatively permanent change in behaviour or skill.

If they are constantly losing and falling behind - then you may be better advised to look at why that might be in terms of how they are being taught or what skill deficit there is ( is it lack of ability?). It will not be addressed by more and longer.

Unlike you, I do not makemy DS do anything. I dont fill the gaps. Being able to find something to do or just being able to be is a valuable lesson.

The answer is simple. Indies are not required to teach any particular hours nor a mimiumum numbers of days a year. They are independent and can do as they wish as long as parents buy what is on offer. Simple market forces!

I think private schools used to only have one or two days off at half term. (maybe this was from boarding schools having lots of overseas parents in age of empire?).

jabed- you are being just a bit of an ass.

Some DC learn in a way that is better supported by a constant drip feed, others via a car-crash crescendo of input/output. One group doesn't necessarily have a 'skills deficit' any more than the other only has the ability to crash learn, crash regurgitate, instantly forget.

Maybe that's why state schools went for the GCSEs (that suit - or did prior to the most recent manipulations!- certain learners, and girls, over others), many privates for iGCEs that suit boys and the do-nothing-for-months-cram-like-there's-no-tomorrow types.

Some parents favour all or nothing, others like keep-it-coming. Doesn't necessarily make one right, one wrong.

And, fwiw, I enjoy the company of my DC every night from 3.30pm, with only at most an hour's homework and Scouts interrupting that!

The answer is simple. Indies are not required to teach any particular hours nor a mimiumum numbers of days a year. They are independent and can do as they wish as long as parents buy what is on offer. Simple market forces!

And people do buy.More would like to buy but cannot afford it. The numbers who HE are increasing too. Clearly the state system is not doing what it says on the bottle.

State schools operate longer terms and longer hours ( with breakfast and after school clubs) than ever before. Children start younger and finish at an older age ( and that is set for a RoSLA next year) yet, it seems they are less literate, less numerate, less well educated, have general knowledge and less prepared for work than ever before. More isnt working.

Because they are businesses and holidays are cheaper for them, and they can make money hiring out their premises.

That's true, Nadia. I went round a very good independent secondary school recently and was shocked at just how much pupils were supposed to work during the (short) terms. Six full days a week and lots of homework and co-curricular. Not sure that all DCs would like that... and apparently they get lots of holiday homework.

My DS gets 9 weeks in the summer, but during the year, he's got 1.5 hours per day more lesson than in the local estate school. That is over 1 day per week, plus some Saturdays. So, over all it probably works out just the same but differently distributed.

And because we still have a lot of kids from the "Empire" who need to go home for a long break to be with families. In my school half terms are usually one and a hlaf / two weeks. Summer a whole two months.

No one loses anything and drip feeding doesnt seem to be something any of them require. Seems only kids in state schools need this drip feed.

That's true, Nadia. I went round a very good independent secondary school recently and was shocked at just how much pupils were supposed to work during the (short) terms. Six full days a week and lots of homework and co-curricular. Not sure that all DCs would like that... and apparently they get lots of holiday homework

I would say that is very unusual. I work in an old established independent. No kid is taking perp home for the holidays. We have been " mucking around " for a week now with fetes and days out etc. Yes there are extra curricula hours but its optional and 2/3 of the pupils opt out. Its mainly done for those parents who want their kids to be kept safe whilst they work the longer hours. Borders sometimes do extras but usually they go back to their houses and watch TV or play. Our indoor sports facilities are well used as recreational but only by a few.

Our actual school day is shorter and we gave up Saturday school years ago
(Saturday school used to be because we had Wednesday afternoons off!)

jabed I think you're missing the point.

The research shows advantaged DC continue to forge ahead in the holidays. Not because they are being made to continue with their studies, but because they are consolidating their skills.

This may happen organically in many advantaged families: holidays experiencing different cultures/languages, extended periods with adults, lots of time to read and play. Perhaps other activities such as tennis lessons, drama courses etc.
Reading of course is the big one. Many small DC come on in leaps and bounds in the summer with their literacy because there is so much time to read to and with them.
If, however, a child gets not a sniff of a book for six weeks, their literacy goes backwards.
Thus at the start of the new term a gap has opened up.

It's really not rocket science.

wordfactory - I worked in some some very challenging schools. I can tell you that none of the inititives of summer school had more than a short lived effect.

It is generally accepted that this is the case. I repeat - if something is "lost" then it has not been learned ( consolidated) in the first place.

If something is not being learned - then you need to look to the teaching methods and whether the pupil has the appropriate abilities. Are you just demanding too much?

More and longer is not an answer.

I'm not demanding anyhting jabed.

I am perfectly content with my DC's 21 weeks per year.

I am simply making the observation that long holidays exaccerbate the gap. The research is clear. So you'll excuse me if I tend to belive it over some random old man on the t'internet.

Wordfactory - this is not the place as this is about holidays, but if we aregoing to discuss the problems of deprivation and disadvantage and educationalachievement, it needs to start with a considered look factors more fundimental than can be addressed by shorter holidays and longer days or drip feeding summer schools etc.

The real issue is one of culture and values and language codes and socio economic factors, and if that is not addressed no amount of longer , more or drip feeding will ever do more than scratch a surface.

I agree with that jabed.

But how do you address it then?

The KIPP schools do so by having the pupils in their care for huge swathes of time, so that they become the main influence in the pupils' lives. The culture, language etc all comes from KIPP.

The results are astonishing.

I was very priviledged to be asked to speak at one and I was floored by the children there. Pupils from serious deprivation (worse than we see here in the UK) working so very hard, completely unmoved by the corrosive influences that dragged down their peers that didn't attend KIPP.

The whole thing about independent schools working harder and therefore requiring longer holidays (or they will all perish) is just nonsense frankly. Maybe they do work harder but that doesn't necessitate between 6-9 weeks off in summer. This is just another way of naturalising privilege like the whole 'my kids are special so they need a special school but yours can go to hell' argument.

I think it would almost certainly be better from an educational and every other viewpoint to have a more evenly spread year with less hours in the working week and even 1/5 days used for extra curricular/catch up/1-1 activity. In every school -state and independent.

I speak as a teacher and as a mother of 2 dcs in an independent school btw.

And less holiday that should say. Less hours in the week and less holiday. A more even distribution rather than full on stress and full on relaxation.

I don't think it's healthy for children or teachers to work in bursts of stress and then extended lack of structure.

This is just another way of naturalising privilege like the whole 'my kids are special so they need a special school but yours can go to hell' argument

Indeed those holidays are a privlege and I think that it is a privlege all children should enjoy.

I do not agree with more evenly spreadtime - all that does is waste the precious few years of freedom from work and adult responsibility children do have.

Children should have time to play and learn to be. It is not good to be constantly harnessed in school. There is plenty of time for that in adult life.

I have mentioned elsewhere than no one has ever died wishing they spent more time working or more time at school - although some may say they wished they has spent more time paying attention at school.

It is quite possible to put most of the curriculum in school into mornings only and still have the same holidays. Much time at school is just wasted.

...and is Govey looking to get rid like he wants to do with the state sector, or does he just apply it to the state sector .

Jabed, what I am arguing for is not necessarily more time in school; I am arguing for it to be more evenly spread. So your arguments don't really wash.

But how do you address it then?

There would need to be a basic shift in society but that would be a long term project - values and culture take 20 years to take any effect (its
generational).

The sceptic in me thinks we do not have a chance of doing anything and the best we can do is just accept it and perhaps build an education system that suits the needs - and not try to change them or make them see education as advantage. For many it isnt.

Being more srpead out really has no advantage. It just extends the misery and drudge.

I know working part time that I still value those holidays more than the time I get off during the week/ term. There is little you can dowith the additional time off from working part time. A block of time off is far more valuable to wellbeing.

'It just extends the misery and drudge'

Jabed, your point of view is very negative. My own children love school and do not see it as 'misery and drudge' and I enjoy my own work as a teacher. However, we all get tired and find it difficult to fit in everything we want to. My dcs do a lot of extra-curricular activity in and out of school and they are sporty and like reading. This means very little down time during the school term but they can also find it difficult to do nothing for 6+ weeks partly because it's such a jump from one extreme to the ohter. Given the contact time of teachers in this country, it is typical for them to be working late into the evening and at weekends planning and marking BUT they get 13 weeks + holiday a year. My family of 2 teachers and 2 school pupils would certainly find life easier if we had less time at school or at least less actual teaching time.

The idea of 6 weeks holiday in summer is a luxury to look forward to but it doesn't necessarily make the long hours and busyness of November any easier to get through. I bet teachers' stress and absence would be reduced if the workload was more evenly spread.