What is the differences between private and state school at primary level?

[Mog]

This has been touched on in the other thread but I'd be interested to know what the differences are in the classroom.My oldest child (of three) has just started in reception (state school) and I'm a school governor. This week I've been visiting the different classes in the school. I've been surprised at the range of abilities in a class and therefore how slow classes move and they seemed a tad unchallenging.

Class size, specialist teachers, layout of classroom (my ds's independent school had traditional single desks in rows facing the teacher), higher expectation, more strict uniform. Probably depends on the school to a large extent. Ours cooked meals on the premises with proper cooks. Children also encouraged to be much politer (took him a while to get out of the yessirnosir habit!) and oddly to comb their hair regularly! (Not one nits outbreak in the 4 years DS was there- before going there and since leaving, he seems to get them all the time)

Have just made the decision to send dd2 to private school rather than the primary dd1 and ds are at.

Here's why:

The classes are smaller -- 20 rather than 30+, and each class has a teacher and an assistant;
The range of ability and behaviour is more manageable, so less class time wasted on dealing with behaviour and more time supporting children to do work which actually matches their level of ability;
A wider curriculum. My older kids' primary school achieves its (good) league table position by doing very little other than literacy and numeracy;
Better extra-curricular activities. My older children's school has quite a good range for a state school, on paper, but in practice most of it doesn't really happen, or happens for a bit and then fizzles out. Music lessons ended up being about 5 mins long, so children barely had time to get their instrument out;
Better teachers. Controversial, this, as there have been one or two outstandingly good teachers in the primary school, but also a lot of short-term twenty-something Ozzies, who don't have the long-term view or the experience to do their best for the children;
Freedom from the National Curriculum, which inhibits teachers' freedom to think beyond the obvious and do more creative and imaginative learning with the children. For example the private school has beautiful displays on all the classroom walls (and no, it wasn't an open day when we visited, just an ordinary one) whereas the walls in the older children's school are mainly bare, apart from the odd poster;
A mindset that doesn't reduce all teaching and learning to Level 4 at age 11, and encourages children to stretch and challenge themselves.

I could go on. It's not a move we've been looking to make, we're not particularly pushy parents, but I do feel that the school (and by extension we) have failed my oldest child in particular. Also, I no longer have the energy to do for the third time all the extra input that you have to provide if you want your state-school educated child to be anywhere near the level of a private school child by the time they finish primary.

Class size, class size and class size would be my first three reasons.

Out of school activities and 'wrap around' child care (so one pick up and drop off for me, with the kids doing clubs like brownies, Karate etc in school so no dashing round like a mad thing for me) also a massive benefit. very high expectations of behaviour.

a lot of money perhaps

I'm looking at this at the moment and round here the best private primary offers such a range of topics with specialist teachers where necessary and the facilites are fantastic (swimming pool, stables next door, wonderful gym) as opposed to the nearest state one where one teacher teaches everything and the facilities on site consist of a concrete playground. I just want an environment which will help my kids to grow up happy and confident and, sadly for our finances, the private school seems so much more likely to achieve this.

Message withdrawn

class sizes.

imo, class sizes and extra curricular activities on offer. martianbishop raised some other points about uniform and courtesy - in our tour of local state and private schools, ds's state school was better on both uniform and courtesy than the private ones! as people have said, depends on the schools you are comparing.

We looked at 4 private schools and 2 state schools for DD, who will start school next September. We finally chose a small girl's prep school for her for several reasons:

• although dearer than the other private schools the cost is all inclusive
• very small class sizes, of no more than 18
• good number of nursery nurses and teaching assistants in the school
• wrap around care, included in cost, from breakfast until tea with food provided
• freshly prepared, healthy dinner for all girls, no alternative allowed
• lovely uniform
• happy, smiling children who seemed engaged in their work and play
• 2 polite, lovely girls who showed us rrounf who were so proud of their school and who were a great advert for their school also
• teachers who took an instant interest in DD, afer all she is the one going there not me (the state school not one teacher, inc the head, spoke to DD when we went round)
• really wide curriculum, including langauges
• extra curricular activities included, such as swimming, ballet, judo, etc
• programmes for any children discovered to have a learning difficulty such as dyslexia
• location - both DH and I have to pass this school on our ways to and from work, making it ideal for taing and collecting her

oh and ds's school has been on tv in the wake of the jamie oliver school dinner expose as a model of how things s/be done - absolutely everything is made from scratch on the premises with the one exception of sausages - and they are working on that!

just didn't want everyone to think healthy school meals are the exclusive preserve of the private system.

Our dd goes private here in CH & she has 21 in her class. I think that's too many! I've been very naïve... 30+ in state schools?! How does anything get done??

You may well ask, sanssouci. Some classes in my older kids' school have had up to 34. Which is ridiculous, frankly. In dd1's Y6 class the ability range is extreme; there are 2 children who would be expected to get Level 6, if 11yo were still allowed to sit for L6, ie. 4 years above their chronological age. A good handful who will get Level 5, ie. the level of an average 13yo. And 11 children who will be pushed to achieve Level 2 (yes, 2) which is the standard expected of an average 7 yo. I simply do not see how even the most gifted teacher can be expected to meet all those children's needs at the same time.

class sizes are my biggest anxiety with ds in the state system - although for now (he's in reception) i think it's beint handled pretty well. e.g. there is an assistant, so max ratio is 1:14 - still pretty large i hear you say, yes that's what i thought until parents' evening. but it is all so organised into smaller peer groups... and provided you have well motivated children with no/few behavioural issues... i think it is workable for us for the moment.

btw - i went to private school and the ratio was 1:15/20!

Very impressed with daughters state primary,entire school only has 100 pupils,and she has already been streamed! so children in class work accordingly and are not kept behind.

Message withdrawn

Only doing private, so comparisons are with friends' experiences:-

• much more feedback - reading book changed each day, and I get a quick summary of how he did, plus tips on what they're working on next and how I could help.
• parents invited in one afternoon after school each week to look at the trays with the children and go through the work for that week. Opportunity to talk to teacher if wanted.
• marking is up to date with comments (presumably for parents benefit as the boys are just starting to read)
• clear guidance for the boys as to what behaviour is unacceptable and what the consequence might be.
• Loads of positive enforcement on display - house point charts, competitions to encoursge boys to bring back library books on the right day etc.

As far I can see most of the boys are covering the same material, though I'm assuming that some may be using more advanced reading books for example. Certainly I'm happy that ds is learning at a good pace. I don't know whether this means that they somehow streamed the boys on arrival or something.

unfortunately private isnt an option for us at the mo with 2 children to pay for, so weve moved instead. im very happy with the tiny church school mine started at in september where dd2 has only 13 children in her class & a teacher, assistant & helper. dd1`s class is a lot bigger (28 or 29 i think) but she is progressing so much more quickly than she did at her last school. it really does seem to depend on the school. some state schools are great & some are pretty dire. (hence our house move & new school for the girls)