Selective mutism/Statementing - should we?

[Wallace]

Dd (age 4) is at pre-school nursery and has been there since August 2004, just after she turned three. She speaks to nobody at nursery, neither the teachers or the other kids.

I have posted my concerns here before and people have been very helpful. I have been on the verge of getting help for her on several occasions, but decided to take the wait-and-see approach after several small improvements (began speaking again to close relatives/ will now talk to me in the nursery classroom if she thinks no-one is listening/ etc). She has never seen anyone professionally about her mutism, but the nursery teachers asked my permission a couple of months ago for her to see the school paediatrician on the Head's reccommendation. I gave my permission, but have heard nothing further yet.

Anyway, the nursery staff have been very good, and have put no pressure on her to speak. However she will be starting school next August, and as ds is in the school, the P1 teacher (mrs X) knows all about dd's problems.
When I was collecting ds from school on Friday, Mrs X said to me that she had been thinking about dd's muteness, and that she didn't think she would be able to allow it to continue when dd starts school, and would just have to be mean to her and make her talk!

I really don't think this would be the right approach, and feel it would make dd unhappy and would make the problem worse. I feel that even if she starts speaking in nursery, she may very well stop again if Mrs X is so unsympathetic. I must just mention that I do like Mrs X, and she did say she has never come across a child like dd before, but she is quite blunt and to the point.

Now to the point of the post! Should I be thinking of getting a statement (I think that's the term) in place, to prevent Mrs X taking her own approach towards dd? If she had a statement, would it specify things like putting no pressure on dd to speak? And if a statement is a good idea how on earth do you go about it? And would it be a good idea to start the ball rolling now?

Knew this was a bit heavy for a Saturday night...not to mention a bit long

It might be worth asking the nursery, or your Health visitor if your dd can be referred to the Speech and Language Service in your area. They will be able to advise everyone involved (including Mrs X) about the best way to encourage your dd to talk.

We have just gone down this route for a little girl at my school and are waiting for an appointment. Until that time, we would not dream of "being mean to her and making her talk".

Have you asked about the Paed. referral? They can take ages, but I think it's probably worth checking, just in case you've got lost in the system.

Someone on here is a speech & language therapist - I'm really sorry but I can't remember who. I hope that they notice this thread and can advise you.

Thanks I mentioned dd to the HV and she said that she couldn't refer dd to SALT as her speech and language are fine at home. I have since found out (thanks mumsnet!) that this is wrong. However there is currently no SALT in our area - the old one retired and has yet to be replaced

I will chase up the paed referral - you are right we might have got lost in the system! It is parents' evening in a couple of weeks, so I will take the opportunity to talk to the nursery - I think I will have to mention my worries about the way she may be treated when she starts school so they can understand the sudden concern.

Have you spoken to the Special Needs Co-ordinator in the school? The school should definitely be seeking advice about the best way to help your daughter. Have you done any research on the net?

Here

And here

And here

And here

I haven't looked at any of these myself, but thought they might give you a starting point if you haven't already looked.

Thanks for the info. I'm not sure the school has a Special Needs Co-ordinator - it is very small - has fewer than 70 pupils.

I will have to get something done, because I will not have any teacher (however well-meaning) thinking she knows best how to make my dd talk.

Thanks for your help

All schools should have a special needs co-ordinator. In a small school, it is often the Head, or Deputy Head.

Just a thought, but if you posted the same message within the "Special Needs" section, you might get more info about the statementing part of your question. Also, many of the mums in that section have had experience of involvement with the Speech and Language service.

Yes, the school should have a SENCO. Is the nursery part of the actual school or separate? If separate there should be an Area SENCO available who visits the pre-schools in the area. They could probably help you to get the ball rolling for you by arranging for dd to perhaps have an IEP. They should also be able to advise you directly about whether a statement is needed. You may find that having an IEP is enough to meet dd's needs and so not have to go down the statementing route.

Good ideas Coppertop.

Thanks, I will ask the Head about an IEP (the nursery is part of the school)

Morning, Wallace.

We spoke about this a while back, sorry you haven't seen a significant change. FWIW, I'd agree with the 'wait and see' you took !

A couple of things:

1. It is conceivable the teacher's 'mean' method might work - I am not saying it sounds like the best way of handling things, and I am not saying it is the acknowledged best way to handle this, but I'm saying that possibly being challenged to speak more might help IYSWIM - just as approaching any problem from a different angle sometimes works to resolve it IYSWIM. I would deffo want to understand (clearly) the proposed 'method' and 'timing' of how she wants to 'push' dd (ie. I'd still insist on it starting as gently as possible, for as short a period of time as possible IYSWIM). I'd also want to negotiate some kind of 'if you try it and it doesn't work with x amount of 'directness' / 'prompting' in y days, then please don't continue...'

(hope I'm not sounding like an ogre here, just trying to say, in theory, other approaches might be valid, espeically if they are well controlled and strictly limited in duration).

If it helps, dig out and print a few pages from selective mutism web sites to show her which generally say her approach is not the best !

2. Is it feasible to attempt to change the environment she is in to see if that (miraculously, LOL) encourages her to be more vocal ? I know this is a long shot, but one where there are more 'trusted' adult helpers / teacher assistants in the room than this place, or one where the class size is different, or one where the 'ethos' is different (ie. 'mainstream' if at Montessori, or v. laid back if current place is somewhat strict / rigid, or somewhere closer to home if this is far etc. etc. etc. I just wonder if there is some hard-to-define 'factor' that means she is not very vocal at this place in particular...

3. Is there a chance that she might verbalise more via an engaging activity - I'm thinking musical appreciation / percussion type clubs / lessons, or something like a kids gardening club where the focus is on an entirely non-academic fun, activity where she may feel the desire to verbalise (to better communicate with the teacher / facilitator / the other children there.

4. I wondered if also doing something where one needs to be very quiet might also help, or completely remove any perceived pressure IYSWIM. From an adult perspective, for example, I think of art classes where the students might be quietly observing a live model, capturing likenesses on paper... are there any activities suitable for young children where quiet / silence is a desired goal ? (I have zero idea (dd is only 19 weeks, LOL), but don't they need to shtum up and listen to the teacher in ballet, for example ?)

5. I wonder if you might see increased verbalisations if you gave more outputs for 'non meaningful' verbalisations - you know those exercises the voice coaches sometimes give on TV to actors etc. where they just make silly sounds, and focus on mouth movement, or just being highly expressive.... maybe fairly abstracted make-believe games where she could be a (non-verbal) character - like a squealing pig, LOL - would be the sort of thing she might love and giggle at, and then talking 'on the back of' the activity might work - she gets to choose to either be a neighing horse or a barking dog next, but she needs to say that. Perhaps within some kind of 'drama' session (at home, or perhaps more ideally at school, because I imagine she is much more vocal with you at home !)

I imagine this is a very frustrating thing for you - and possibly for dd too.

Good luck !!!

I doubt you'll get a statement, but you need to make sure there is a sensible IEP in place (not something the school has dreamed up without any knowledge of the condition). I think you need to see a SALT (but one with experience/knowledge of the area which miht be a tall order unless you are preaped to pay- I'd imagine you;ll only need a couple of sessions though to get a programme from the SALT).

Thanks for all the input. hub2dee you have some good ides, unfortunately we have no choice about where she can go to school/nursery as we live in the back of beyond. There are hardly any kids clubs/activities here either She is keen to go to ballet, but will need to wait til she's at school. Your idea about the animal noises ets is good - she started talking to her grandpa when they had been playing monster games and she was "Raaarrrring" (never had to spell that before!) at him loudly.

Celia2 glad yuor pupil is making such good progress. that was a good idea getting the mum to come in and work with a small group outside the class. That might be worth trying for my dd.

baka - so the SALT would help us work out an IEP for her? We wouldn't be able to pay, so would have to rely on hte good old NHS, ans seeing as there isn't even a SALT in our area at the moment there isn't much hope that we can get one with experience in selective mutism! At least if we start the process now we may get somewhere by the time she starts school

She does find it frustrating I think. She says things like "If Benjamin scribbled on my picture at nursery, I'd tell him 'NO! Don't draw on other people's pictures!', and then I'd tell the teachers!"

Hi Wallace. I know we have chatted before about elective mutism. We are also in a very small school (15 pupils!!), but dd1 has support from the "learning support" teacher - she works from another, slightly larger primary school (her "hub"), and our school is a "spoke" IYSWIM. She only comes one day a fortnight but the little that she does with dd1, backed up by support from the teacher and work we do with her at home, has made a difference already, and she has only been seeing her this term (ie since the end of October).

I have to say I gasped out loud at your dd's primary school teacher thinking that being mean to her would make her talk. IME that will make the problem worse. It is very rare that children do this as a form of attention seeking. IIRC there was another thread recently where someone described such a case - this girl was easy to "catch out" re not speaking - obviously this isn't the case with your dd!!

Are you in Scotland or England, Wallace? Either way, even in a very small school there will be a visiting learning support teacher or someone in the school charged with this responsibility. If you can find out who they are and talk to them now, you will know what kind of support you can expect.

Hi Wallace, if you're in the sticks, maybe you can get together with one or two other parents and organise a once a month club, or do some more frequent activity that could occasionally be biased to your dd's needs, LOL ? !!!

Love the quiet one Raaaaaaaaaaaaaring really loudly ! Raaaar ! I would guess games like this, or musical CDs etc. which encourage shout-out / immitate animals noises - and other similar sounds might be helpful just to get her to have 'fun' with her voice.

Also just realised a lot of drama 'warm up exercises' do this kind of 'play' with the voice and intonation etc. Possibly, if you can find anything (even as a one-off special once in a blue moon) for kids at a local amateur dramatics place she might enjoy that ?

One other thingy, a few months back I noticed there was a 'voice celebration' workshop thingy in London by Deva Premal. She's a famous yoga / meditation musician (amazing vocals, lovely melodies, repetitive chanting etc.). Possibly some kind of similar voice appreciation / find your inner voice / singing thing (but age-appropriate) might also encourage some more fantastic noises !

Music, maybe based more on sound than 'word' IYSWIM might be a winner with her. Try googling 'Adiemus' - vocal music created from phonic sounds (ie. no real words) to gorgeous music. Recommended.

I know all these suggestions are in the realm of noises rather than mature 'normal' verbal speech, which is obviously the goal, but I would still guess that increasing the general level of 'comfort' around the physical feelings and mental thought processes about speaking would only help.

hub2dee you have many brilliant ideas - I am taking note of all of them

Miaou - we are in Scotland. I think there is a learning support assistant, but at the moment she is covering the classroom assistant (off sick long-term) and the nursery (no class teacher).

I think Iw ill talk to the nursery, then maybe approach the head. It would be great for someone to work with her like your dd - sounds like it is a good approach

... can only imagine how frustrating for you it must be to have her 'normal self' with you and 'quiet self' at school, LOL.... and also for her, of course too !

Last idea of the day ! Cheapo tape recorder (small) go around recording things - car doors closing, leaves rustling, people shouting, doors creaking... then attempt to immitate these sounds with maybe the banging of a lid on tupperware for the car, or rice in a box for the leaves etc... obviously 'brainsotrming' / chatting about what she can think of to make the noise... after this becomes boring maybe she would like to record herself reading / recounting a story or song etc etc.

... She'll either become a foley artisit or an enquiring journalist !!!

X

I think it's an excellent sign that she "sees" herself as a talker - her comments about saying "If Benjamin scribbled on my picture at nursery, I'd tell him 'NO! Don't draw on other people's pictures!', and then I'd tell the teachers!" is a great thing to hear and can definitely be built on.

I just wanted to share our breakthrough with you. The little girl in our Reception class who had not spoken yet (joined in September), spoke to the learning assistant in her class today!!!!! The learning assistant reacted brilliantly, was extremely calm about it and just answered the little girl, but had to rush out of the classroom immediately afterwards to cheer!!! The little girl has still not spoken to the classteacher, but we think it is such an amazingly huge step forward and we're happy to let things develop at a comfortable pace for the little girl.

The classteacher was getting concerned about how to assess some of the little girl's understanding in some areas like science which are so language based in Reception, so we have agreed with her mum that both the class teacher and mum will do the same investigative play activities at home and at school, and will then tape any conversation that happens. Mum and classteacher are then going to get together and listen to the tapes to compare.

Will your dd join in with singing at school? I think Hub's ideas about music are great. Music, and singing in a group in particular, can be a great way to join in with sound, without being noticed.

Wow that is great about the little girl! Defitnly a huge step in the right direction!

Dd does see her self (wishes she could be?) a confident little girl. She has been telling me that she whispers to herself when she is playing at nursery - I will ahve to ask the teachers if they have noticed this... it may be wistful thinking! If she has, it is a big step.

She doesn't join in with singing, or actions of songs, but hte staff say she is looking far more animated than she used to during activities like this. And she really does LOVE singing at home She also joined in with a tiny part of gym for the first time recently!

If there's no SALT in your area I would personally get onto google and find out as much you can yourself - there may be sample IEP's etc somewhere out there. I wouldn't rely on the NHS.

Do the nursery staff know which her favourite songs are? Perhaps if they sang the same songs at nursery it might make her feel more comfortable. It's great news that she's looking more animated - hopefully it's the first step towards feeling more confident.

Thanks I will let you know how we get on at parent's evening!

Wallace-Have just sen your thread after starting one of my own.
My DS was 4 in August and is in reception.I notice you say your DD is 4.Did you delay her starting school this year?
My DS has been diagnoised as having selective mutism but also has a speech delay.Like you dd he talks at home but not at school or in his SALT appointments.
What is stamenting?

I think the nyrsery teachers idea about trying to make her talk is disgusting.Saying she won't allow it to continue just shows her ignorance.
Has your DD been diagnoised with selective mutism?

We are in Scotland, so she will start next year (they start in August here, when they are between 4.5 and 5.5)

She hasn't been diagnosed as she has never seen anyone (paed, etc) about her mutism - we were just hoping it would go away!
I'm not really sure about statementing - my idea of it is having a plan in place outlining the approach the eduactional staff should take regarding my dd. From what the more knowledgeable posters have been saying I think it may be an IEP she needs - an Idividual Educational Plan.

I think I have read somewhere that kids with a speech delay can sometimes be selectively mute, as it makes them more reluctant to speak.