Is your child gifted?

[TheBazTheBearandTheBelle]

I am just wondering if there is anyone else out there who finds it hard to talk about their child being gifted? If my son had special needs due to something more debilitating like dyslexia or ADHD it may in fact be easier to push the teachers to act on helping him, not that I would wish those things on anyone. Is it just me or is it truly more difficult?

My 4 year old ds can use the word 'similar' in the right context. I'm convinced he is gifted. Only my mother agrees

I have a chorister with a great voice. I wouldn't say he was gifted! He is also well above average intrumentally but I wouldn't say he was gifted in this either.

Back to the OP: People don't take parents seriously when they say they have a G&T child, as is evident on here. If they try to explain why they know this then they are seen as bragging. My son was reading the alphabet at 1. He was given a letter bus for his first birthday by a friend and 2 weeks later he knew all of them by sight and out of sequence along with numbers and shapes. He'd carry it around the house shouting 'numbers and letters!' Two years later he was reading.

I always thought choristers at cathedral choir schools had their fees paid and were expected to sing in church because of their gift. If your son is in that situation then I think you are being unduly modest.

My children are not gifted but school has put dd2 on G&T for maths because she is above average. How silly, she is just good for her age, nothing more. Some parents may hear this and think that their children are exceptional, when that is not the truth.

I think each school has to find the top 10% and class them as G&T which is silly. What's in the top % in one school may not be anywhere near in another. It's just hitting targets.

belle , FYI I have two children who are classed as gifted. One with an IQ off all the IQ test scales and another with one around 140. Both were reading fluently by age two and one was studying university topics by age 6 after getting hold of a quantum physics book! But it does not define them or our family and he probably won't be richer, happier or more successful than your average joe blogs!

Your posts are actually quite rude. "To the poster that said they think others' think their child is bright, maybe they don't think anything! Need to pull your head out of child's....methinks!" I don't have the need to say that my son has been able to read and understand Shakespeare since the age of 5 or that he could watch a moving car and relate it to Newton's laws at the same age. It's fairly evident when you speak to some children that they are exceptionally bright.

Gifted in terms of being in the top 10% is not gifted in the true sense of the word. When I was at school there was no such thing as G&T, being top of my year every year just meant I was bright. Ds is gifted according to the criteria of current day G&T but probably not gifted in the true meaning of the word. If you have 60 dcs in a year it is a ridiculous notion to say that 6 are gifted. I think you'd be looking at an exceptional school to have 6 in the entire school. In terms of ds's ability there is no one in the year that comes close to him. He also plays golf and his pro said he has never come across a child as talented as him (pro teaches about 200 a year). So in school terms that again puts him top. Again it is meaningless and doesn't count for anything because it isn't an academic subject.

I've never met a truly gifted child but I've met plenty who qualify as gifted according to the fake govt criterion of top 10%.I read a thread on MN about a dc being gifted because they were doing subjects a year ahead of their age. That seems daft to me to be classed as gifted. Ds works at two years ahead of his age at school, which is considered average!

belle, i agree, my dd's go to a tiny school, dd1 is in the top 10% for her year but there are only 12 children in her year, teacher said she's top of her class alongside one other, but with such a small class its hard to say who's G&T, who's just above average and who's below arerage? DD1 was an early reader and free reader in year 1, her math skills are great and her spelling is better than mine (i have dyslexia), i wouldn't say she's gifted as such, just bright.

Dd2 is different again, she knew her alphabet early and would spell words using magnettic letters even though she was non-verbal until she was 4, her math skills and problem solving is great, the school are amazed (the word they used in her last review) by her reading skills as she has taught herself to read without using phonics. To me she's amazing (she's my dd) and the fact she has Autism and severe speach delay makes her even more gifted to me. But as i said before, what use are these skills to her if she has no social skills, can not communicate her feelings, can not dress herself or cope with social situations. When i see her attempting to play with another child i am more prod then when a teacher tells me how great her maths skills are, social skills will help her a lot more in life.

The government introduced the G&T policy after a parent of a very bright girl tried to sue his local LEA after the school his daughter was at was unable to cater to her needs and she was being bullied. He wanted them to pay for a private school for her and they refused on the grounds that a state education could cater for all abilities. In the attempt to keep the parents of bright children happy and to stop them jumping ship into the private sector they introduced the policy. It doesn't work in practice as the abilities of children vary from school to school.

I didn't know that belle. I would have thought it was easy to have objective criteria to assess whether a child is G&T rather than using a meaningless 10%. As for ds's singing a number of professionals have said how exceptional his voice is but it isn't measurable. He is 6 so too young to be a proper chorister although the local church choir agreed to take him at such a young age because of his ability.

Actually there is no statutory figure of 10% although it is often quoted.

DCSF guidance states that every school should keep a register of its gifted and talented pupils. Schools are also required to indicate which of their pupils are gifted and talented on a termly basis in their School Census return.

There are gifted and talented learners in every year group in every school. In identifying gifted and talented learners, DCSF guidance encourages schools to focus on:
? learners who are gifted and talented relative to their peers in their own year group and school;
? a range of abilities including talent in the arts and sport;
? ability rather than achievement, so that underachievers are amongst those identified.

Recent DCSF guidance assumes a norm of around 10% of the school population. The proportion of pupils identified may vary across year groups and in small rural schools it may be more appropriate to identify the gifted and talented population within a key stage as opposed to a year group. However, it is important to remember that gifted and talented pupils will not always show this through current high levels of achievement, so that even a year group showing generally low levels of achievement may still include gifted and talented pupils.

Since relative ability changes over time, learners should move on and off the register when appropriate.
Although a school?s gifted and talented pupils are identified on the school census three times a year, it is currently
recommended that schools review and update gifted and talented registers on an annual basis.

Your son sounds very talented, Mollie, and with your support he'll go far. Singing and music is just as important as being a gifted mathematician or linguist. Society needs talents like these and it's shocking that his school doesn't recognise this. I would look into music scholarships for him

belle , I found it arrogant that a parent thinks other peoples jaws will drop when precious little Johnny opens his mouth and speaks the wonders of the world! Just maybe, aquaintance or friend won't really pay much attention to this child for three reasons:

1. Child does not appear gifted to them
2. Most people aren't interested in other peoples kids
3. Some of the most verbally able children I have met have been very weak academically

MollieO If son can sing like Jackie Evancho then he is gifted and you should make the most of it now before his voice changes! St Paul's - ghastly school - would probably be happy to hear him now!

To say that 10% of the school population is G&T is a ridiculous notion. There is no way that 10% of the general population are G&T so why is the figure higher for school age? I doubt you could say that as much as 1% of the general population are G&T.

I think that depends upon the conversation Colleger. It's far more arrogant to quickly dismiss another parents comments when you've never met their child.

I've no idea why there's so many in the school population Mollie, it's not like 'real life' as I don't think they include children who are G&T in the non-conventional subjects.

From what I have seen, a fairly high proportion of MNers perceive their children as gifted, so hardly something that is seen as an embarrassing fact on here anyway.

I have 2 dcs, one of whom is probably gifted and the other who is almost certainly not. Both are physically disabled.

My experience is that it is far easier to get support for a gifted child who can do well in exams and bring kudos to the school than for a disabled child who is likely to lower the school attendance figures due to hospital appointments or might inconvenience the school with her wheelchair.

The support needed for giftedness is simply so much cheaper and puts no physical strain on the supporter. Also, I have no hesitation of telling dd that she has to take part (not all) of the responsibility for her own intellectual stimulation- I can't tell her to take responsibility for her physical mobility if she can't get the wheelchair up the stairs.

Colleger whilst the handwritten letter from the HM inviting ds to audition was nice the prospectus of St Pauls put me off. There is no way I'd let ds board in yr 2 or even audition (which is what the school wanted).

If he does go to a choir school it will be one where he is allowed more of a normal life than St Paul's appears to offer. Our local one seems more flexible fortunately.

Belle ds doesn't like singing at school as he said the music is boring and the choir isn't professional enough (the music teacher cancels practices a lot so the children lose interest in attending). Fortunately the church choir is very well run and the choir master expects a high level of commitment from the boys (and their parents).

MollieO, go and speak to the RCM JD as they may take him early

Ds's school has excellent music provisions Mollie. I don't know a lot about choir schools but I did have a friend who's children attended York Minster on a scholarship basis, they both lived at home. I wouldn't be happy with my son boarding.

I can see the rationale behind the government G&T programme. The idea being that they don't want to miss out on genuine talent which might stay hidden because the child is growing up in an environment where this is not encouraged. For such a child, even fairly modest achievements might be the sign of something greater.

My own dad- who is undeniably bright but grew up in an intellectually very poor environment in the 30s- told me the other day how he used to astound the neighbours by reciting the capitals of the world which he had memorised from the atlas (I gather they were rather short of entertainment in his village if that is how they were content to spend their winter evenings).

He was very hurt when I made a remark along the lines of "isn't that the sort of thing little boys do at that age?". But then I realised how unfair that remark was. Yes, it's the sort of thing little middle class boys, surrounded by information and encouraging parents, might do as a matter of course and nobody is terribly impressed. Dh did the same at that age and it didn't mean anything.

But for a little boy coming from where he did, where even the adults did not normally have access to this kind of information, and the general attitude was that reading might make you go a bit funny in the head, it was really quite remarkable and the sign of things to come.

I think that is what the government was looking for. Not wonderful achievements but the sign of untapped potential.

My home was like that cory, no books at all. I was the second person (the other was my brother) in both sides of the family to go to university (as in the whole of the family; aunts, cousins etc) I think the policy doesn't work in practice as, and I hate to say this, the 10% has more then a fair share of middle class pushy parents. The untapped potential is pushed aside for grammar school entry also as the parents of the bright children in poor environments are less able to afford tutors.

Belle same here and even though I'm in my 40s now only myself and my brother and myself went to uni despite large families on both sides. I've no experience of the G&T govt practice as I assume it only applies in state schools.

All children have strengths. In some children, the level of those strengths is great enough for them to be considered ifted / talented.

However, for practical purposes in a school context, using 'relative' giftedness for planning provision is in fact quite sensible.

Think of it as the flip side of SEN - an SEN child is one for whom some special provision (over and above normal in-class differentiation) needs to be made in order for them to make progress in their learning (whether that special provision is due to a physical disability, a type of behaviour or a specific or general learning difficulty).

A 'gifted' child in that school context is a child for whom some special provision needs to be made (over and above normal in-class differentiation) in order for them to make progress in their learning. The top child in the top group is not necessarily gifted IF they are working at a level which is easily accommodated within the normal differentiation for that group. However, it is in practical terms useful to identify them as 'gifted' if special planning needs to be done in every lesson in order to give them work appropriate to their needs.

Of course, that is relative. In some classes in some schools, a child may be identified as gifted (in the sense of needing special provision) while in another school they would simply be a normal member of the top or next to top group. It is the fact that the school needs to make special provision to avoid putting a ceiling on the child's progress that is important in practical terms.

If a child is gifted in a non academic subject (government guidance uses the term' talented' for this though there is little precedent in the academic literature for this terminology) then the special provision may need to be out of school or through links with an outside provider (church choir, sports club, music teaches, swimming club etc etc) - many schools, particularly primary schools, may not be able to nurture that ability appropriately in-house but they should know where it is available in the wider community and be able to signpost children towards it.