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Original poster

Appeal - Have we messed up big time?

22 replies

WannabeNigella · 04/05/2011 19:56

Will try to keep this brief.

DS1 starts school in Sept and we found out yesterday that he has been offered our third choice which is our catchment area school. The first two choices were faith schools and we attend church around once every 3-4 wks due to DH doing shift work.

When we applied for DS's school we did note that it said for us to back up his attendance at church with a letter from the vicar but as we applied online we detailed his attendance in the info boxes for both schools and couldn't see an attachment choice so presumed, naively I now know, they would contact us if they wanted it.

Anyway, obviously now we are about to appeal and although our Vicar is willing to give us a letter so we can appeal to both schools, I am worried it is just going to get thrown back out cause we didn't supply it in the first place.

I could cry, in fact I have cried! I feel like I have let my boy down big time through being naive. We are the first of our friends and family to even apply for a school place which is why I think we were so naive about it all and now I'm so worried we've screwed it up!

My concern is that basically both schools have no official places and they could argue, and i can understand why, that if we had supplied the letter in the first place then they would have given him a place and not another child.

I have today spoken to the appeals office at the council and they wont give me any guarantees, as expected, but have said to just get the letter in now.

Sorry, not so brief after all. I am truly gutted.

OP posts:

thirtysomething · 04/05/2011 20:01

sorry no advice as know nothing about admissions but didn't want you to go unanswered....

Was it made clear on the form you filled in that you had to submit extra letters etc? If not are there any grounds to appeal because they didn't give you the correct information on the website?

Original poster

WannabeNigella · 04/05/2011 20:03

Yes it did say to include a supporting letter but as we were applying online, which we thought was the most secure thing of doing, there didn't seem to be an option to attatch anything so we presumed, wrongly, they would request it if necessary.

I know we've been stupid.

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lucykate · 04/05/2011 20:12

regardless of any appeal, get him on the waiting lists for your preferred schools, find out where abouts on the list he is too. dd got a place even though she was 9th. school places can change more than you would think.

Original poster

WannabeNigella · 04/05/2011 20:14

Ah lucky that has made me feel a bit better. He is 2nd on the list for our first choice and the appeal Dept said today that a letter won't change that so I'm guessing it's a sibling at 1. Then he will go straight to the top of our second choice with a letter.

I just know how desperate people are to get their children into these schools so didn't think it was at all likely they'd move.

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Original poster

WannabeNigella · 04/05/2011 20:15

Lucykate sorry not lucky. Bloody touch screen!

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Original poster

WannabeNigella · 04/05/2011 21:37

Bump! Anybody else with any wise words?

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bubblecoral · 04/05/2011 22:35

No wise words, but I can sympathyse with feeling like you let your child down! It's pants!

My ds did the local grammar school 11+ test and failed by 4 marks. Long and complicated story, but in short, he was due to sit the test in the special needs room so I was told to take him to reception instead of taking him to the same place as all the other children. I took him to reception, but was told to take him to the same place as the others. So I did, which resulted in loads of confusion for him and is almost definately the reason why he didn't do as well in the first teat of the day as he should have done.

WHY WHY WHY didn't I insist on giving the lady in reception my child's name? WHY did I just blindly do as I was told without questioning it?

Ugh! I have beaten myself up over it every day since, it's a horrible feeling. BUT you and I are both doing the best we possibly can for our dc now, and no body can expect any more. Mistakes are forgivable

prh47bridge · 04/05/2011 23:20

If these are infant class size cases (i.e. the schools concerned have classes with 30 children in Reception, Y1 or Y2) your appeals should only succeed if you can show that they made a mistake and your son would have got a place if they had got it right. Unfortunately your failure to provide a letter from the vicar is not their mistake. You would only really have a case if you could show that the process for submitting online was sufficiently unclear that parents could not be expected to figure out what they were supposed to do. If you are the only parent in this situation that argument is unlikely to fly. If a number of parents have been affected it becomes a stronger point, but it would be up to the appeal panel to decide if it was strong enough to justify admitting your son. You may get a sympathetic appeal panel who will be prepared to admit your son even if they don't think a mistake has been made but that is a long shot.

If they aren't infant class size cases you stand a better chance. You will need to show that your son will be disadvantaged by not going to the appeal school. It will be up to the panel to decide if that outweighs the problems the school would face in having to admit another child. You need to build as strong a case as you can to show why the appeal school is the right school for your son. Don't be negative about the allocated school and don't talk about the standard of education - no matter how outstanding the school is, the panel can't use that as justification for admitting a child.

If you are second on the waiting list you have a good chance of getting in that way. I would still submit the letter. You don't want to find a late applicant with a supporting letter from their vicar gets in ahead of you.

Original poster

WannabeNigella · 04/05/2011 23:26

Thanks prh. Both schools are ones that take approx 15 children per class, small village schools.

Really hope you're right about his waiting list position, I can't imagine anyone not taking their place in a class that small too but I really hope I'm wrong!

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admission · 04/05/2011 23:43

Nigella wannabe, sorry to be negative but a school with an intake of 15 is also likely to be an infant class size case, based on what is called future prejudice. They will have a reception class of 15 but a year1/2 class of 30, so the infant class size regs apply then.
I would agree with PRH you cannot show a mistake has been made by the LA / school, so you will be unlikely to win any case of appeal.
I would get the letter in from the local vicar to the school / LA ASAP and ensure that the LA puts you on the right admission criteria. Then hope that there is movement.

Original poster

WannabeNigella · 05/05/2011 06:58

Thanks admission, not what I wanted to hear but half expected it. Do lists really move that much? If he is placed at 1 and 2 do you really think he might get in at one of them?

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crazymum53 · 05/05/2011 08:48

We applied on-line for a faith school (secondary) this year and the LEA website had this type of phrase " there is a supplementary application form for this school which needs to be filled in and returned to the school by ....date".
Faith schools should publish the number of children admitted under each category if they are oversubscribed so as a church attender you will be a higher priority.

Original poster

WannabeNigella · 05/05/2011 08:52

I definitely didn't see anything like that Crazymum53 but can't get back into it now to check, which is highly annoying, as could help form the basis of an appeal. Everytime I log in it takes me to my result and I can't get into the original application.

OP posts:

bubblecoral · 05/05/2011 09:27

Maybe you could try from a different email address, even if you have to re register?

Original poster

WannabeNigella · 05/05/2011 09:33

Thanks Bubble, just tried that but the whole admissions section is locked down as it is now closed so that's a no go.

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bubblecoral · 05/05/2011 09:38

Ahh, that's a shame. I would have thought that if you email the LEA or the school they will be able to send you a hard copy, they are supposed to do everything they reasonably can to help you with your appeal, and that seems like a reasonable request to me. I'm finding that you have to be quite pushy to get the information you need, but hopefully it will all be worth it. And simelar to what I said above, if it doesn't work at least you can look back and know that you tried your best.

crazymum53 · 05/05/2011 09:39

Our LEA does publish a booklet "Applying for a Primary school for your child in September ....year" and if you don't have a copy there may be one on your Council's website. Often there is extra information for faith school and community schools and you need to check whether it is clearly stated in that booklet that an extra letter or form is needed and where it needs to be sent (the school or the LEA). You did put the information on the form (and assumed this would be passed onto the school) so you could possibly have a case if the LEA did not pass on this information but really it is difficult to prove without a copy of the form. I did also get an email receipt when I submitted my application form which gave a summary of my 3 school preferences and the reasons for the schools that I had chosen. Did you receive anything like this from your LEA ?

crazymum53 · 05/05/2011 09:40

mynameisjess · 08/05/2011 13:47

Sadly, in my experience, a mistake on the parents behalf is not usually enough for an appeal panel to overturn a decision. Make sure you have other arguments before you go to appeal.

RachelleKeyes · 10/05/2011 20:35

Hi, I am about to appeal for a primary school place for my twins (just to make it even harder to win!). At 206 metres from the school and not understanding the impact of a bulge year (60 children with siblings going back to a class of 30) I didn't put any medical information down on the original form. I am now appealing but don't rate my chances very highly.

I am an insulin-dependent diabetic, recovering from a back operation that has left me in severe pain, mobility is difficult, i.e painful, painkillers that are too strong make me sleepy - not good for driving or looking after small children (the twins have a sister sixteen months younger than them), and I have recently been diagnosed with chronic peripheral neuropathy meaning feeling in my hands and feet has gone and they are permanently painful.

I have macula bleeding in my eyes meaning that DVLA could revoke my licence at any stage. Why oh why oh why did I not put this on original form???!. Anyway, the neuropathy has worsened drastically in the last three months (scary for thoughts of the future). My kids have been offered second choice (better off than lots of parents I know) but I feel the distance is just too far for me. There is no bus that goes down that road and driving although possible for me now is not good for my back. The twins were 8 and 9 on the waiting list and now, strangely as there has apparently been only one late application, have now shot down to 14 and 15!

I didn't put any of this on the form - does anybody out there think I have a chance of winning my appeal? I know that children at 110 metres didn't get into this very over subscribed suffering from a bulge year school?

Any advice would be very gratefully received. I'm just not sure whether I need to fork out money I very definitely don't have on a lawyer or whether there's no point throwing money away?

Thanks everyone.

admission · 10/05/2011 22:28

There is absolutely no need to employ a lawyer - they will not help you in this situation.
I am afraid that the admission authority, from what you have said ,have correctly administered the admission process as they knew nothing of your medical condition and as such at appeal, given it will be an infant class size case, you are very unlikely to succeed, even though I have no doubt the panel will have every symphathy for your situation.
I would ring the LA tomorrow and explain your situation and say how do I get as rapidly as possible onto the medical situation admission criteria for this school. That will get you probably up to the top of the waiting list assuming that the LA accept your wish to be considered under this admission criteria and then hope that two spaces become available.

RachelleKeyes · 30/01/2012 10:53

Am just revisiting and thought I would update - thanks for your answer. I successfully won my appeal. I think it was down to a sympathetic headteacher who fully supported me. I was so relieved and have made sure that I have put all the correct information down for their little sister who is starting this year. Such a horrible time and I'm so glad it's all over. I really sympathise for everybody who is going through it this year ... good luck everyone!

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