re Appeal coming up

[tigtink6]

We have our dd appeal coming up shortly , just missed the pass for a catholic grammar school. No support from school, said she is not academically good enough.She is achieving 4a's in maths and english, and a 5 c in science in SATS boosters. Many of her peers who passed, heavily tutored are getting the same scores.
School will not give me a statement, headteacher has refused, her form teacher said she would but only if she had permission from head!
She has suffered with lots of chest infections and lots of absences from school since year3. Her absence record has improved this year and i have a letter from her gp. I just feel i have n't a leg to stand on without a basic letter from school. Any advice on what to say at hearing!!

Have you got any evidence that your dd is achieveing 4a's and a 5c?

I think that is something that would be useful, and what about evidence of good scores from KS1 SAT's?

Are there any academic extra curricular activities you could get evidence from?

Is the school refusing to write a letter because they don't think your dd is academic enough, or is it because they simply don't support the system? If it's because they don't support the system, you could simply say that the school's policy is not to support appeal applications so you were unable to provide evidence from them. If it's because they don't think she would cope in grammar, it might be best not to mention it at all and just concentrate on the other reasons why your dd needs a place there.

I have been through the OFSTED report and school prospectus and highlighted the things that they offer or are strong at that would particularly benefit ds for our grammar school appeal. I have no idea if that will help at all, although I have been advised that we need to let the panel know why our ds will be at a disadvantage if he doesn't get a place, but without being too negative about the other school.

Something you could do to provide academic evidence is get an educational psycologist report done, although it's not cheap and it's not guaranteed to give the results you want. It's only really worth it if it shows a very high academic ability.

Btw, don't rely too heavily on my advice, I'm just another parent going through the same as you at the moment!

I'm sure the appeal experts on here will be along soon to give you some more proffessional advice than I am able to.

I am a little confused here. You say that your child just missed a place at the grammar school, but (is this right?) that her school won't support the appeal because she isn't academically strong enough.

Normally, if the child was just a few marks away from the mark required to get a place, I would suggest getting a letter from relevant professionals setting out any extenuating circumstances which might have affected their performance in the exam (health issues, recent bereavement etc). I'm not sure how helpful that would be here, as there doesn't seem to be a specific problem or issue that you could identify as contributing to her low score in the exam and, besides, the school are unwilling to help. I take your point that children with similar SATs scores passed, but 11+ exams are very different from SATS and, anyway, SATs scores are bands and even within one band there can be quite a bit of variation in children's actual ability.

As Bubblecoral says, you need to identify why your child would benefit from attending the grammar school, but unless you can identify some clear reason why your child did not get the necessary mark in the test, your chances of winning the appeal are very slim. Frankly, I doubt any panel would accept poor attendance at school as an explanation of the low test result, unless there was confirmation from a GP or paediatrician that there was a long-standing health problem and, even then, the panel might assume that the school and parents had ensured that the child caught up with what they had missed.

But give it your best shot.

I don't know which LEA you're in, as there seem to be differing standards. but in my LEA, with the partially-selective schools we have, those SAT scores would not indicate a child who would "make the grade," even if she'd got them at the end of Year 5, let alone at this stage of Year 6. And if she's missed the pass mark, and her HT says she's not academically good enough, then it begs the question of whether a grammar school education is right for her. It can be very intensive, and I know of many children who, particularly if they've been intensively tutored, have struggled with the workload once there.
Do you have any viable alternatives?

Certainly, I've read on MN in recent days of children who got 5s in all their SATs and passed the 11+ but still didn't get a high enough mark to get a grammar school place.

Since my first post, I've noticed that you say your child's attendance has improved this year, so I'm assuming now that the real issue with attendance was in years 4 and 5. That, I think, makes your basis for appeal even flimsier. As Clam says, you need to think about whether the grammar school is the right environment for your child but, from my perspective, the even more urgent priority is to formulate a Plan B, because banking on winning the appeal would be very rash.

I agree with Panelmember that you will have great difficulty persuading the appeal panel that there are any extenuating circumstances that mean they should admit your child. Go ahead with the appeal but treat it as a long shot and make sure you have a good plan B in place.

Thanks for all the replies, very helpful. My dd has had medical problems since year 2, also we lived abroad, 3 different primary school, moved 5 times. So a lot of disruption. She has not excelled at school academically however she has gone from 3a's (end of year 5) to now 4a's/5c since her condition has improved in year 6 as well as attendance. She was ill the week of the exam with a chest infection, i have a letter from her GP as well as information about her condition. Already sent to the panel. The reason i have decided to appeal is not only do i believe the school is the right one, she has caught up with her peers, she is very bright and articulate, her form teacher says she is a role model to her peers, her behaviour and attitude to school is excellent and she always works hard. I completely understand the head not supporting her, he is supporting one child who should have passed, fair enough.What i can't understand is why they won't give me a teachers assessment of her, i need something to go on. I am asking for a written fact/data on her current ability.
I had a very similar situation with my son's appeal 3 years ago, HEAD was against it, said same about him as my dd, he would struggle, too fast paced, We won the appeal( he too has a medical condition, very similar circumstances)
His then form tutor gave me a letter of support, now retired, she said she disagreed with the head. Needless to say he has excelled and is an A1 student.I feel i am facing a losing battle, but it is worth a shot, she has a place at an all girls comp, quite a good one so its not all bad. All her friends are going to the grammar and she is gutted, but she says she will try for the 12 plus later this year, so she is being qrown up about it.
I just know i need proof of her current ability, I know still may not be good enough but i think her rapid progress is significant . Don't know whether it is worth mentioning my son at the appeal as an ex , or would it be best not to?

I wouldn't mention your son. Even though you mean well, it could come across as pushy.

Could you take some of her school excrcise books, or ask just for copies of any records the school has of her achievement? If they won't give you a letter, it would seem very harsh of them if they didn't even give you records they already have.

Thanks for reply,I asked again for a statement, form tutor has said she will see what she can do as final assessments are being done this week, as the SATs are next weeks as well as the Hearing! Your right , won't mention son's appeal only how the catholic grammar school has benefited him.

Maybe you could say stuff about how it will benefit your dd to be in the same school as her db, and not going would affect her self esteem etc?

It's good that you already have knowledge of the GS, because you can use that to draw on it's strengths and point out thing they offer that your dd needs.

I hope the form tutor is able to come through for you!

Yes it does help i know the school, i can say a lot of positives. I can only hope the form tutor finds the time to give me something, rushed me off the phone before, caught her at break! My persistance may may off!! Even if we fail, at least i tried.

I really don't want to be discouraging, but I do wonder whether the school are reluctant to give an assessment because the gist will be "she's clever and hard-working but not clever enough for a highly competitive grammar school", which won't help you. Nothing you have said in your recent posts makes me think that a panel will be willing to overlook the fact that your child didn't get a high enough score in the test. The GP's letter won't carry much weight unless it confirms that your child has a health condition and that that health condition would have limited her performance in the test.

Do your best, but waiting a year and trying the 12+ may be the best long-term approach.

Thanks for your comments, yes i do appreciate it is a very long shot and as we have a place for her at a school, we have nothing to lose by going ahead with the appeal. The panel may think we are wasting their time for even thinking she has a chance, but i have been here before and won against all odds.I was told by the Head last time for my son i had no chance at all of getting him in. I just want to ask one more question, would it be worth mentioning she was only gaining 3a's at the end of year 5 and now 4'a /5c in year 6. Or would that just make it even worse!(Her teacher is giving me a statement today, finally)It shows a significant improvement, i know still perhaps not good enough. Her form teacher has also said a 12 plus probably will be her best option,i have asked the school if she can do the 12+ later this year, if the appeal fails and they have said i can put her forward. It also depends if my dd settles well in the school she has been allocated if she is happy, we may not bother with the 12 plus .As any parent I just want the best for her.

Just one more point, she also did the 11 plus a few day later after the Catholic grammar school entrance exam, and got a much closer mark,did not pass but 6 points short.Clutching at straws maybe.

tigtink6,
honest opinion, yes you are clutching at straws.

I am a governor at a good over subscribed school which is just over the border from an LA with grammar schools. It is very noticeable how many pupils we have coming to appeal who start at grammar schools and then realise after about 6 months that they are struggling and want a comprehensive education within a caring pastoral environment. As a school we are seen locally as the safe haven - most pupils achieve good results at GCSE and A level and we have for the last 4 years had pupils moving onto oxford / cambridge university.

I suppose what I am saying is think about your daughter's happiness, it does not necessarily all revolve around getting into a grammar school. To me two separate fails at the tests and the school hedging their bets, says that your daughter will struggle at a grammar school, at best she will always be near the bottom of the class educationally. Will she not be better off being in a high set in a non-grammar school setting?

Sorry I don't understand - did she not pass 11+ with high enough marks to get into the grammer??

If not regardless of your feelings and her projected results she shouldn;t get a place - the exam process may not be fair to you but which little girl who did pass will not get their place if your DD dores and will it not open the floodgates for lots of other parents to say 'Hey, my kid didn't pass either and we feel peeved about it!!'

My DD didn't pass with high enough marks - but she is a 5a student - why should she get to go to the grammer if she didn't get a high enough pass mark - she shouldn't the girls that got the marks should and she will be going to the local comp where she will do just as well I am sure.

Just to clarify one point for MadameCastafiore - if tigtink6's appeal is successful no-one will lose their place. That isn't how it works. However, I share the view of Panelmember and Admission that this appeal is unlikely to succeed.

Oh thats good - just thinnking of some poor little pig tailed child being told that although they actually got in on academic merit passing the exam their place was being given to a kid that did not pass.

Hi Again, Yes i agree our chances are very slim and certainly a child with a higher mark are not going to lose a place at the school because of our appeal.It is an independant appeal panel and all places have been allocated to all those who passed, it just so happens some parents are put off by the appeal process so don't bother. I appreciate that some may think i am a pushy parent but my daughter wants this school and i am just giving her a chance at it. I did for my son and she would feel let down by me if i did not bother.My son was borderline as well and has excelled at this school, in fact top in most subjects.It is not always the case that they will struggle, she can only improve. However i want her to be happy, if we fail which is likely, at least she knows i tried for her and i hope she will love the school she has been allocated, she understands her herself it is a long shot . I appreciate the comments.

Have you had your appeal yet? If so how did it go.

We lost the appeal ,so no surprise there! The panel were really nice and we were with them for 45 mins, i thought they would rush us out! They asked lots of questions and listened to what we had to say. I noticed a wince from one of the panel members when i said we did not have a statement from the school. They PS did refuse again on that one. There were 40 appeals and 6 places. So i knew we did not have a chance really but my dd is pleased i tried and now is talking about her new school. She is thinking about doing the 12 + but if she settles well in her new school we may not bother.