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Original poster

Academically selective V Nurturing and arty ?

70 replies

delillah247 · 05/04/2011 21:48

DD1 has been offered two scholarships for entry to year 9. Which do you chose, both have very good results, one is more academically pushy, ie maths a year early, the other has the most fantastic extra curricular facilities. DD is very academic, and really wants to be challenged. She does lots of dance etc, outside of school. Am I right in thinking that she would thrive best at the more academic school? Very confused.

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Pagwatch · 06/04/2011 22:10

Deliilah247

With respect I think you are misunderstanding me a tad Smile
what I am saying is that just as people don't conform to stereotypes, so schools chose to present themselves in a certain way - may give off a certain vibe - the reality is alway much more complicated than that.

Ds1s school is one of the top twenty in the country by most tables - top five in some. It is highly academic with a toward maths/sciences. The vibe is serious and actually it was looked at as hogwarts Smile. But scratch the surface and the arts are fantastic. Ds1 is doing art a level and the standard is extraordinary. They also didn't push the pastoral side because frankly they regard that as a given.

I'm just saying. Ignore what they sell themselves as. Look at outcomes, talk to current and ex pupils, look at leavers destinations.

That's all

Looking at it as " am I choosing arty and pastoral" or " academic and hothouse" will always have arty and pastoral as the answer as wevthink that makes us more caring and selfless.

snorkie · 06/04/2011 22:11

if the top children in school 2 do around as well as the top in school 1 or at least as well as your dd aspires to then I'd choose it in a heartbeat. Your dd will by the sound of things be in that top group, so the average doesn't matter but the ambience does. If the top children in school 2 achieve less highly than your dd aspires to then consider school 1.

Original poster
delillah247 · 06/04/2011 22:15

Thank you, that makes huge sense. :)

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Yellowstone · 07/04/2011 00:19

Pagwatch I'm not sure what age your chidren are but I think you may be being optimistic about numbers of A*'s required for highly competitive courses at top universities, particularly if you're coming from a top private school.

There have been extraordinary rejections from our school (top state) in the past couple of years.

And I assume that you're reading the papers?

Acanthus · 07/04/2011 09:32

Pretty sure one of pag's is off to uni this year

Original poster
delillah247 · 07/04/2011 22:51

I think I may have made a decision !!! School 1 is much closer to home,(10-15mins) not that travelling to school 2 was an issue as very good school bus.(40mins) But, thinking into the future, she will undoubtedly want to go out with friends after school, weekends etc. Which would be quite difficult from school 2, as many of there pupils come from miles away, and I want her to be able to be independent, jump on a bus home if she wants to pop into town, that kind of stuff. So my decision has been made on a purely social/independence p. o. v. What do you think??

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squidgy12 · 08/04/2011 13:40

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Original poster
delillah247 · 08/04/2011 22:10

Thank you Squidgy xx :)

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Dozer · 09/04/2011 19:13

I think living near school is v good plan!

ninja · 09/04/2011 19:15

For various reasons (which I will go into if you want) Maths a year early isn't a good idea - you need to find out what they do afterwards.

A lot of the best schools push for quality rahter than quantity of GCSE's, you don't need 13!!

ninja · 09/04/2011 19:16

Just seen you've made a decision and yes I think your daughter ebing able to play with her firends is a great reason! Which one was it as a matter of interest?

Original poster
delillah247 · 09/04/2011 21:59

It is actually the more pushy one, ninja. Not so sure now though, there was a distinct look of disappointment on dd's face when I told her. So I really think we need to go revisit both schools. Please tell me why Maths a year early isn't a good idea, as far as I am aware they then do AS level in yr 11. Do you think that is too much pressure?? I am so grateful for any opinions, experience, as like I have said before this is all new to me.

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ninja · 10/04/2011 08:01

OK - AS in year 11 is OK if you're going to stay at the school (otherwise what do they do at another school?). The year 12 they'd do A2 maths so unless you're doing Further Maths that means no maths in year 13 which isn't ideal if you're going on to a degree that requires it.

Also some Universities will require that you don't do A Levels over 3 years.

Sorry - it's a bit of a bug bear of mine as there are plenty of ways of stretching the kids without having to do GCSE Maths early.

Yellowstone · 10/04/2011 09:49

There really are plenty of schools which do some GCSE's in Y10. It's far from uncommon. There are also some schools (ours is one) which do all GCSE's in Year 10. As far as any problem with A levels being taken over three years goes, I think schools now know what's acceptable to the universities and what isn't (there might have been initial difficulties when this trend began but I'm sure all schools will have wised up by now/ universities will have provided clear guidance).

One of my children did GCSE's in Y11 and the others so far have done them in Y10 with no ill effects. If your DD is only required to sit one GCSE in Y10 I would say there was no issue at all.

purepurple · 10/04/2011 10:04

I think it was Einstein that said that imagination is more important than knowledge.
School 2 would interest me more than school 1.

Yellowstone · 10/04/2011 10:21

I think several posters above have already that a school perceived to be 'pushy' or 'academic' frequently does it all. Sport, music, the lot.

Einstein was super modest but the same. Could do it all, but with an enviable lightness of touch.

Xenia · 10/04/2011 18:57

Some schools do maths a year early as a kind of con and you're not quite ready and get worse grades. Which of he schools gets most children into Oxbridge? The better academic private schools do not go in for loads of GCSEs and think 8 - 10 is enough so you have time for your hobbies etc.

thinkingaboutschools · 10/04/2011 19:58

My dh went to a school which is often cited as extremely academic. I asked his view on it - he said that if you are very academic and thrive on learning - a very academic school would (for example) be an ideal place for our dc. If they would be struggling, or were more interested for example in sport or art, then a different school would be more appropriate. Each school is different with a different feel and emphasis - I think it is all about matching the school with the child. At secondary level, what the child thinks is really important as well.

thinkingaboutschools · 10/04/2011 19:59

Sorry meant to say if they are very academic...

Yellowstone · 10/04/2011 23:19

Xenia the schools where all students take all their GCSE's in Y10 contract KS3. They do so because they believe their students are sufficiently academic to benefit more from the three years of depth at KS5 than a drawn out KS3. To do a smatter of GCSE's in Y10 and the rest in Y11 seems to me to be fudging it completely. I think schools should either do all in Y10 or all in Y11. There's a challenge in doing all GCSE's in one year and to hide behind doing some in Y10 because a school is 'pushing' able students is disingenuous to a degree. It makes things far easier, it doesn't create a challenge at all.

Original poster
delillah247 · 12/04/2011 15:11

Thanks everyone for all your help, have revisited schools today, and dd has made up her own mind, and managed to persuade both me and DH, that school 2 is infact the best place for her.

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squidgy12 · 12/04/2011 18:36

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Xenia · 12/04/2011 20:39

Early GCSEs: obviously some can do loads very young as they are geniuses but I think it is better if you do them all at once. You used to have to do all 8 or 9 School Certificate subjects ni the 1940s and you didn't get your school cert unless you passed them all and if you failed one subject you redid the whole year in all subjects which was probably a bit harsh but it's not too different from the watered down BAC in only 4 or 5 subjects the Government announced. Of course most children have an IQ around or under 100 so I suppose they aren't realy suitable for doing the normal academic subjects. Anyway it's an interesting issue.

In the worse state schools who are just desperate to get enough chilren getting CCCCC in 5 proper subjects they will make all children do them early and then if they get C not A not let them resit when they are in the year after if they got a C first time as all the school needed for it s results was the Cs.

Yellowstone · 12/04/2011 22:49

Xenia what is that about? The worst comps make kids sit GCSE's in Y10 just to notch up a C? Eh?

delillah that sounds like a good result: determined (and no doubt the best judge) DD!

wordfactory · 13/04/2011 08:06

Interesting as to whether children should sit exams early.

I would have probably agreed with you Yellowstone, that they should do them all at once until I can now see my own DC are ready to sit some far earlier and it seems a complete waste to just go over and over and over the same ground.

For example, my DC's prep school has the children very advanced in French, DS's secondary school understands this and puts the boys from that school through the GCSE early (year nine or ten). They then spend the extra time taking their French on to an advanced, stage which is useful even for those who don't want to actually take an A level in it. Some also take an extra GCSE (spanish is popular) in the extra year(s).
The time seems well spent.

DD's secondary school are less inclined to take exams early. They have fewer entrants from DD's prep so perhaps the critical mass is not there to have an accelerated class. DD is now going over all the same things again and again. It seems a waste to me, though DD is not too bothered.