anyone's dc decided not to go to uni because of the fee increase?

[brimfull]

dd lucky and going in sept after her gap yr so misses the fee increase

must be gutting to the kids in yr 12 now and of course all younger ones

just interested in how it has changed peoples plans

IndigoBell, how is that different to the current paying back of student loans? They certainly feel like debts.

If you do a quick Google you will see that mortgage companies do take student debt into account. The deductions affect affordability.

I don't know why it feels like a debt to you and not like tax. You pay it back in exactly the same way you pay tax.

For example you can take a year out from working and not earn anything and therefore not make any repayments and no debt collector will come knocking on your door.

No - but interest is accruing all the time you aren't paying and that doesn't happen with tax. So not earning means the debt is increasing - that doesn't happen with tax either.

And middle earning graduates will pay more than higher earning graduates over the life of the debt. That would be reversed for a true tax.

ds1 is in year 12 and it is certainly something that is worrying him.

At the end of the day some degree courses will just not happen because students will only be willing to pay such a huge amount if they have some sort of assurance that there will be a decent return in terms of remuneration. Law medicine veterinary science etc will all survive and I think that other courses will increasingly have to become sandwich courses with a year in industry to make them more sellable

Certainly ds1 is looking at courses where he can have a year out earning to help pay off his debts and to give him a step up on the ladder come graduation

European unis do look inviting but I wonder how they are perceived by employers here who may know nothing about which ones are RG equivalent and which are more like those at the bottom of the tables

No, it hasn't changed DS1's attitude at all (Y12). He's not thrilled about increased levels of debt but he hasn't given a thought to not actually going; he's just looking at ways to minimise debt .

My children aren't anywhere near old enough to be worrying about this yet but I'm looking at saving for their university education. Can you decide not to take a student loan if you can afford it and pay the costs upfront?

Yes. No-one has to take out a loan.

saggers the difference is that a debt to a company or credit card or whatever is absolute, you HAVE to pay it back or declare bankruptcy. This loan is different because the terms of repayment are different and you won't HAVE to pay it back unless you meet the criteria. The current lack of graduate jobs is something of an anomoly that will resolve itself eventually by a combination of the economy improving and there being fewer graduates due in part to the (sensible, in my view) slight disincentive to go unless you actually WANT a graduate job as opposed to just being a student for a few more years. The Labour policy of getting 50% into HE was always barking. If you don't earn over the threshold amount, you won't ever pay it back. I fail to see how investing in your future like this is any different to an airline pilot who does have to take out bank loans to finance their qualification that allows them to earn ££. Education is only a right up to a certain point and the fees as the scheme is set up will not mean no-one can go unless they have rich parents so it is not as divisive as some suggest. I do agree that it is unfortunate for those who are only a few years away from this as they have less time to get usewd to the idea and parents witrh more time to plan may arrange a lot of things differently in order to help them but it is the same with the pension changes - they HAVE to be brought in and it has to happen at some point.

My DC are 17, 15, and 14. It has certainly made them think whether going to university is really for them. Who in their right mind would stack up thousands of £s in loans 'and not worry because you don't have to pay it back until you earn a reasonable salary'. FFS when they earn that salary they will have mortgages, my GC to bring up.......and mine and everyone elses pensions to pay!
One plus is that now all 3 are intersted in how our political system works. The 17 yearold has decided he will never ever vote libdem. By my reckoning they could all be voting by the next election.
I notice others have said go to university in europe, but what would happen if they went to university in England and then buggered off to Australia or Canada. Would they still have to pay it back?

Three of my children are identical ages to yours nagy. They are all in their right minds. If they take the view that that's how it is and there's no point worrying, then I'm all for that view. I want them to go to university and benefit from the experience in the way that their siblings are; how will it help if they worry?

I don't see the arrangement as ideal for the new generation but I don't see it as iniquitous either.

It will be interesting to see if young people will be put off (as opposed to just saying they will).

When grants were phased out, it was heralded as the death of further education, so too the introduction of fees...yet we know ever increasing numbers of young people do go.

I have 2 adult DC who went to university and 1 who did an apprenticeship as well as 3 teenagers. I am more than happy for them to go to university if that is what they want to do. But they will be paying the loans themselves and they will be paying back much more than the older sibs. I think it's good that they are questioning whether the cost of a degree is money well spent.

As for the 'experience' of university. I've never really bought into this. All teenagers grow up, meet new people, fend for themselves. In some ways university delays this.

Yes questioning is good. But maybe hold back from telling others that they can't be in their right minds for refusing to worry.

I think the younger ones see what the older ones are getting out of university and aspire to that to. Horses for courses etc: I buy in, mine buy in, you don't.

I though the condems were selling increased fee to the young in that way Yellowstone. I may not be putting my point of view over well!

Enlighten us then. So what are they getting out of University? And is it really worth £50,000.

It is worth £50,000 for the eldest daughter yes, even if that judgment is based on salary alone. She'll be earning not far short of that as soon as she starts.

But I'm not talking purely about salary, that's way too narrow. I think my daughter has grown enormously in three years: her mind is razor sharp in a way it wasn't before and she's had fabulous opportunities too, not just educationally but vocationally and socially too.

I'm strongly in favour of mine going to university but that doesn't mean I'm pushing it for everyone else. And I think the scale of the fees would mean a caveat: reading a subject with substance, not a 'Mickey Mouse' degree. Hopefully with mine that won't be an issue; their school would caution them too.

Sounds like you've had a bad experience squidgy; maybe we've just been lucky so far.

Which universities/ courses would pass the squidgy test then and which professions would not?

My son is considering engineering like his eldest brother. That's proper A levels Yellowstone.....maths, physics and chemistry! He will have to consider very carefully whether it's worth it now! He may well be better off doing an apprenticeship. DS who took that route topped £50K last year age 25.

Razor sharpe mind......That is also required when working on live power cables. That's what DS2 does for his 50K.

"I think my daughter has grown enormously in three years: her mind is razor sharp in a way it wasn't before"

But how do you know that three years working, with on-the-job-training, might not have produced the same effect? I've checked some of your other postings: you seem to be saying that your DC are Oxbridge level, so they sound fairly razor sharp to start off with.