I need some honest MN advice on this please. Y1 problem.

[emy72]

Hi all,
I have already posted before about my DD1's problems in Y1, I feel now they have come to a head and I am not sure what to do about them any longer.

To summarise, DD1's is in the local village school, ofsted outstanding, etc...nice school, nice kids, etc...however...She is in a class with a large group of children who still have not come to grips with the basics. Or at least this has been given to us over and over again as a reason why the class, and especially the upper end is not progressing and not being taught at their level. My DD1 is in the top group but to be honest looking at national averages and the rest, really just sailing close to average.

We've raised this issue many times and every time have been told what to do with her at home - this has worked in a way in terms of progressing her with her reading and writing, BUT my DD1 is increasingly demotivated and demoralised as she feels she is working hard at home but not really getting much from the school, neither in terms of learning or rewards. She is starting to switch off quite considerably and I would say regressing in many ways.

Yesterday she came home with the first set of "spellings" - they were:
He - She - Was - All - The - with a note saying that they had covered these in class but needed work at home. I do believe this is the level most of the class is working at, as the teacher said over half of the children are still working towards 1c. I don't know why this is, but that's where we are at.

The problem is exacerbated by the fact that her brother in reception is well beyond that, and this is not helping. She told me she went to the teacher and said she could do those and the teacher said "shut up and sit on the carpet, I haven't got time for this". Obviously I don't know whether this is true, but I know from having been in several times to speak to the teacher that my DD1 is seeing as an irritation. I don't want my DD to be given any special treatment, by the way, I just want her to given enough opportunity to progress in a reasonable way.

We've had to go in several times as at one point, as she was having her books changed once a month and not even read with, and this I felt was unsatisfactory. We had to go in at least 3 times to get this particular situation resolved, and to be fair it has been now. Even her reading though, is way way below what she reads at home, she is free reading chapter books and still on ORT level 8. I am not bothered about this particularly, as she is reading loads at home and so we have that in hand - however, this is just one other sign of what's happening and also a result of many many weeks of not having her books changed, etc...

I went recently to an open class event and my DD1's draw was full to brimming with photocopied coloured in sheets. She claims that she is given photocopied colouring in sheets quite a lot as she finishes her work in 2 seconds flat (I can believe it if it is that easy) and then is bored so is given stuff to colour in. As there is no other evidence of work, like art or modelling or anything else, I worry that the bulk of the school day is spent supporting/catching up this large bunch of children, and the ones who are closer to average are just left to fend for themselves.

This is certainly what my DD1 claims, although you can never be sure 100% of what a 6 year old states, can you, as they have their own way of seeing things, I guess, and I am not sat in the class to judge for myself. I asked my DD why she can't do a painting for example or something arty instead of coloured in sheets and she says that paints etc have been locked away as naughty children are splashing all over the place with them. There has been a problem with this, so I believe that one. She also says the class is very very noisy and we had a problem with headaches, because of it. My DS1 also says their class is very very noisy as he is adjacent and says that his teacher often has to go and ask to keep it down please.

I have tried to grin and bear it and just get on with stimulating her with stuff after school, she does loads of other activities, but I feel deep down that this is not solving the main issue, ie her schooling is failing her and it is having an effect on her.

I would love to move her but we have no other options locally. We could move her to selective independent education, this is 20 miles away, and so a long day for a 6 year old and possibly a solution, who knows. I would love to know from the MN jury whether you would be happy with this or not, as I feel like I am losing perspective on it. I feel like I ought to go back in and fight for her but I am just starting to feel like there is no point?

Have you spoken to the HEad or just the class teacher? Is it just a bad teacher or was this apparent in Reception too?

Hard to say because my DD joined from another school almost at the end of Reception last year. I have been to the Head once when things were really bad before Christmas, and things picked up for a little while, but are back to nightmarish at the moment. I think the teacher is new but enjoys a fab reputation with the children and the parents as is extremely popular and well liked - I have no beef with the teacher particularly, just with the poor education my child is receiving. My DS in Reception is not receiving a much better deal tbh, so I am starting to wonder whether it is the school.

I think you definitely need to speak to the Head. You've tried addressing this with the teacher and obviously nothing is getting done. The teacher may not want to speak to the Head about the issue because that would be an admission that they aren't coping well, but unless the Head knows there's no way to get extra support put in place. Be careful in how you approach this though. This is not taking a pop at the teacher, this is a problem with meeting the needs of all the children in the class and whilst you fully understand that those who are 'behind' need a lot of help catching up this is adversely affecting not just your DD but all the children who are working beyond the class average. Can you get other parents to support you on this?

It's very worrying that half the class are still working on the basics. Did you notice this kind of disparity in Reception? Could this be a case of ineffective teaching or is it a known problem?

The naughty children and the paints incident makes me wonder whether the teacher doesn't have very good classroom control skills. If the teacher can't control the class tehn it's very difficult for any learning to take place unless the child is self-motivated, which your DD seems to be, but that could go some way towards explaining why about half the class aren't.

Ah x-posts. Did you notice any significant differences in ability at the beginning of the year?

Ask to see the Head to discuss the school's policy on differentiation.

Your DD should be being provided with work that challenges her, otherwise she is wasting her time - it's just a short step from boredom to disruption and children are put off school by things like this.

I am a Head of Dept in secondary school, BTW, but have also taught primary (Yr 3). NO WAY would I be giving my most able student colouring in or pegging her to the 'class average'. Sounds like an overwrought or inexperienced teacher. It is likely the Head would be aware of this so go with some solutions as well as questions.
Can DD work independently at all?
For example, could your DD have an ongoing project that she could carry on doing research on when she has finished other work.
For example "What is chocolate made from and where does it come from?"
Easy enough for the teacher to give her (or you could provide) some research materials, a book or maybe she could use the class computer.
She could present what she has found out to the class.
It would only take 30 minutes to organise something like this but it could keep DD busy doing something constructive for a few weeks if it is just when she has finished her other work.

Also it is reasonable to demand that DD is given spellings / reading that is appropriate to her level.

Hope you get this sorted. It is reasonable to ask that your child be educated in school rather than be kept busy with colouring in.

The teacher in the Y1 beg of the year talk forewarned all the parents to bear with it as there was a large group of children who were considerably behind where they should be. We had reassurances that this would not affect our DD, but it has in a big way, I feel....

Definitely see the head and voice your concerns. Teaching a child at home is difficult when the sort of quality you offer is not replicated by the school. Is a tutor the answer (on top of school - takes the tension out of doing it yuorself), or an older child being her 'buddy'? There really is no excuse. Some primary school websites are very clear on the extension learning they offer bright youngsters - ask your head what he/she is offering, and if you get no satisfaction, moving schools may be your only option.

Thanks South, it sounds like my expectations are reasonable then. I think we are going to have to go to the Head with this. We did at the begining of the year ask about my DD been given projects and this never materialised. Worth asking again though, as she is now certainly more mature and could probably pull it off/take pride on it if it is sold well.

My biggest fear is certainly that this will degenerate in her being disruptive, as I have noticed a progressive decline in her attitude towards learning.

YEs - definitely go back to teh HEad. Your DD should not be suffering because of the lack of ability of some class members. At our school the children work in differentiated groups for maths, reading, writing. They have differentiated spellings too - in Y1 and Y2 each child has its own individual spellings. Agree with SouthGoingZax re individual projects - tehse could easily be set up with little effort by the class teacher and at least she would be doing something constructive. Is tehre any TA support in the class and howmany are in the class?

There are 30 children in the class with a full time TA, so I guess average for a state school? I think I feel like I should go back to the head rather than the teacher now, I didn't want to do that but I might have to by the sounds of it.

Have name-changed for this.

I think there are several issues here.

The children who are struggling have as much right to be in the class as your child. I imagine one of the reasons your school is outstanding is because it works hard to help those children achieve. When my child started school, it was a rude awakening for me to discover that many children started school unable to hold a pencil - not because they were stupid but because they had never been in an environment where they were given paper and crayons to play with. That shook me out of my complacency.

My experience of Reception was that children who had been to pre-school and covered some of the basics there were 'parked' while the teacher devoted her time to the children who were struggling, either with the work or with behaviour. This carried on into Year 1. This seems to be what is happening with your dd's class too and maybe isn't surprising. If lots of the children started in Reception with very low baseline skills they will still be catching up.

A good teacher should be able to provide differentiated learning for all the children, appropriate to their needs. In retrospect, I realise that my child did not have good teachers - they were very inexperienced and simply did not have the classroom techniques for dealing with a very diverse class in an inner city school. The reliance on colouring-in sheets does not sound good. I don't think you can sensibly expect painting as an alternative, but you can expect better than that.

My experience was that if your child is a fluent reader, teachers tend to leave them to get on with it and the reading scheme books are often too basic. My child used to read them in two minutes, I'd sign the reading journal and then we'd get on with Harry Potter or whatever.

You need to have a constructive conversation with the teacher. Frame it in terms of how you can support your child's learning. Don't accuse the teacher of being useless - you need to work together. Can you help in a practical way by (eg) going into the class to listen to reading? I would give it until the end of the year, at least. Driving 20 miles each way to the other school will be a huge undertaking so (obviously) you need to try to make things work better where you are now.

Ah. Slow typist so hadn't seen the other posts.

I'm quite shocked that you were told to "bear with it", as that sounds like an admission that the children who weren't struggling would not be getting sufficient attention during the year. So this sounds like a plan rather than something that has happened by default because the teacher is over-stretched or inexperienced. In that case, I would go back to the head rather than the class teacher, because it is a school management issue.

god, your poor dd. My dc were in similar situations and I moved them.

If all the above does not work, I would look at the independent school for both children. How long does the journey take, rather than just thinking about mileage? For example, my child's school is just 6 miles away, but in traffic on a morning it can take me up to an hour if I time it wrong... or just 20 minutes if I get a wiggle on and leave the house on time and time the route properly. What are the roads like? What's the traffic like?

Living slightly away from the school has not affected my child one iota. She gets invited to playdates all the time, goes to parties, I meet up with parents too. Her day does not seem too long at all, although she starts Saturday school in September which will be a pain - I'll be mooching around the art galleries and museums every Sat am with her little sister... To be honest, the time in the car together is fun as we listen to Chris Evans on a morning and chat about spellings, books, what she's doing at that time in school. Sometimes, she waits through 45 minutes of mindless chatter and then lands a bomb shell of something she really wants to talk about that's bothering her. So I like our daily commutes actually :-)

Very good advice tryingtoremainanonymous. Actually I do like the teacher and I don't dislike the school either, but I am just very very worried about my DD's education. I don't honestly know what the problem is, and incidentally, they will not have parent helpers.

I will go and see what they suggest - in the past though they had loads of excellent suggestions about what I can do at home, which I have followed, but I think we need to steer the conversation onto what they can do at school with her, as we have the home stuff fully covered!!!

You're welcome, but your latest post has alarmed me too. Why will the school not have parent helpers? It sounds as if the class teacher is overwhelmed and a bit of extra input from parent volunteers could make a big difference. Granted, there are issues about CRB checks (and some schools won't have parent helpers in their own child's class) but refusing to have parent helpers altogether sounds bizarre and rather defensive. Mind you, it was being a parent helper in my child's class that opened my eyes to how out of their depth the teachers were.

I understand your worries, but don't forget that all the stuff you do at home is part of your child's education too. We shouldn't have to, maybe, but it is possible to do a lot to compensate for less than ideal provision at school.

OMG I have just remembered something. At parent's evening in Feb, my DH asked about maths, as we had a scary moment where my DD looked blankly at us when we showed her a number 15....the teacher's response was:
"we thought that the class was doing ok with maths so this term we haven't done any maths really - but we will be picking maths up again next term" - I think the look of shock on our faces must have been priceless, and we were too stunned to reply to that.

BUT we were given useful suggestions like buy some games, so we have done that and this has been a good way of keeping their maths ticking over rather than subjecting them to "maths teaching" at home, on top of everything else.

There are just so many examples that I could write a book! Anyway, thanks for helping me put all this into some sort of perspective - at least I know I am not asking for the moon.

Parents and schools should work in partnership! It's not down to you to ensure your child receives basic education - your job is to support.
No maths for a term....
I too am suspiscious that they won't have parent helpers - what are they hiding?
You have to go to the Head and keep going to the Head until you get a satisfactory result. Good Luck!

SwallowedAFly - That was very much what I saw. The teacher was in the room but struggling feebly to manage the class. The low point was when I had to ask her whether she realised that one child (who even to my not professionally-qualified eye had issues which needed support) had let himself out of the classroom and was now in the playground. She hadn't seen him go and nor had the TA. Who knows how long he'd have been outside if I hadn't intervened.

Teacher training now really doesn't include enough on classroom management. It's absolutely shocking and can have a real impact on children's learning.

I would go straight to the HT.
It does rather soumd like the teacher is way out of her depth trying to deal with the majority of the class and ignoring the minority.
DD1 had the same problems being given non work to keep her busy because she had finished the class work.
Try suggesting your DD moves into the year 2 class, as to be honest, the very fact they havent covered any math work for a WHOLE TERM is disgusting.
Bad teaching, bad planning and also bad supervision of the teacher by her own management.
I would also consider contacting the governors. It isnt just your child who is being betrayed.