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Original poster

Do Headteachers always leave inadequate schools?

27 replies

verybored · 17/03/2011 16:09

If a school is rated as 'inadequate' by Ofsted, does the headteacher always leave shortly after the inspection is published? Thanks

OP posts:
TalkinPeace2 · 17/03/2011 16:18

Only if the issue was leadership and the LEA have a better option

unless its an academy in which case they do diddly squat

Original poster
verybored · 17/03/2011 16:55

Oh so the LEA might replace them? I assumed it was the governors.

It's not an academy, it's a junior school. The inspection hasn't been yet, i'm just anticiating the result!

OP posts:
TalkinPeace2 · 17/03/2011 17:01

if its leadership, the chair of governors usually goes too - as they are half of the equation

but yes, LEAs have teams to deal with this situation with the minimum of disruption to kids

academies will have to have it sorted directly from whitehall I guess - I've asked, nobody has the answer as all the academies will be excellent (yeah right)

Original poster
verybored · 17/03/2011 17:14

Bugger, I assumed the head would certainly go.

The situation is : DS's at infant school. Partner junior school isn't great - we removed DS1. Sent DS's to the infants as we always liked it and decided we would deal with the juniors when it came to it.

Boys are in year 1 of infants and it too has gone downhill majorly and just had a rather crap Ofsed - all 3s. The juniors are due an ofsted and I think that if the infants only got satisfactory, the juniors will get unsatisfactory.

If they do, and the head leaves, this would be great and we would probably keep them there. But if he doesn't go, and the infants doesn't improve soon, we will probably move them. But if the juniors get a bad ofsted, the other schools may fill up and we won't be able to move them.

It's all ifs, buts and maybes but it's difficult to know what to do!

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Hulababy · 17/03/2011 17:16

No, not always, even when leadership have been found to be inadequate. If they can show they are listening and open to change, and happy to have support, then the head can remain.

Original poster
verybored · 17/03/2011 17:19

This is not want I want to hear Sad

bums

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TalkinPeace2 · 17/03/2011 17:24

they are always loathe to remove heads as it generally involves early retirement which costs around £1/4 million including pension entitlement

Original poster
verybored · 17/03/2011 19:05

I rather naively thought they would resign, but then I suppose it would be difficult to find another job.

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LondonMother · 17/03/2011 20:27

There's a huge shortage of teachers willing to take on headships so no, I doubt they would have too much trouble finding work - as consultants, if they can't get a permanent job.

IndigoBell · 17/03/2011 21:06

You don't even know if they will get unsatisfactory yet. 'Satisfactory' is a very broad category....

mercibucket · 17/03/2011 21:10

if they get put into special measures - keep them there! they get resources thrown at them and it's much better than bumbling along somewhere near the bottom of the pile

EvilTwins · 17/03/2011 21:12

I teach in a school in special measures. The head left not long before the OFSTED and the new head was told the school was unsatisfactory. She hasn't moved, but the entire governing body was dissolved.

EvilTwins · 17/03/2011 21:13

merci - speaking from experience, the "they get resources thrown at them" is a bit of a myth. Unless by "resources", you mean extra people coming in to check what we're doing all the bloody time.

TalkinPeace2 · 17/03/2011 21:15

Agree with evil
they breathe down your neck, occasionally parachute in advisers, but the resources are basically unchanged

mercibucket · 17/03/2011 21:17

that as well! it's not a myth round there. I've got a friend who moves her children from school to school as they go into special measures. as you might guess, there's a lot of crap schools here! it's better to be in one that's hit rock bottom and has resources thrown at it (maybe that's just our LA but it's no myth) than one that's struggling but not yet hit rock bottom. There is usually a clear out of teachers though - a few are identified and then 'managed' out through pressure/observations/bullying

EvilTwins · 17/03/2011 21:20

merci - sorry love, but you're talking crap. And your friend's an eejit.

A) By "resources", I'm guessing you mean money? Well it's not true. No LA has money to "throw" at a school simply beacuse it's in special measures.

B) You can't "manage" a teacher out through pressure or observation. It takes a long time and a lot of due process to "clear out" a teacher.

Jeeez. No wonder schools get such bad press.

TalkinPeace2 · 17/03/2011 21:31

Merci
'managed' out through pressure/observations/bullying
is known as "constructive dismissal" and gets VERY expensive at Industrial Tribunals.

mercibucket · 17/03/2011 21:44

sorry love too but (apart from agreeing about my friend) it is true. In particular, of course you can manage out a teacher - that's why they leave with stress after going on long term sick after their lessons get repeatedly slated by the HT/obs team. And sadly too it does not usually end in constructive dismissal cases. What happens is the union and the HT get together to work out a package - so a few months pay + agreed reference = teacher leaves and either moves on to another school or leaves the profession, usually with mental health problems that mean they're not really up to taking the case any further. School then puts word out that the reason why the school went into special measures was all due to these 1 or 2 teachers and they have now left - problem solved
this is really quite a common approach

Original poster
verybored · 17/03/2011 21:44

I know it's not in special easures yet, but we have a problem with the junior school - we removed our son. We sent our twins to the partner infant school for a variety of reasons, but in part due to the fact that it was very good. It has gone majorly downhill since our eldest was there and we have having major problems. WE have always been wary about sending the boys to the juniors, but couldn't imagine they would get through another ofsted without going into special measures, which I had stupidly assumed would mean the head would leave.

They don't need money thrown at them - whether this happens or not - they need a new head beacause he completely useless.

So we can leave them in the infants, hope the problems sort themselves out, then they go to the juniors where we hope for the best. Or we wait and see what happens with the juniors and if the head leaves then all is good. But my worry is, things don't improve at the infants, the juniors goes into special measures and the head stays and we won't be able to move them as the schools could become full.

Or maybe i'm thinking too much and should just wait and see!

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TalkinPeace2 · 17/03/2011 21:46

As my DH keeps saying to me
do not over analyse
reacting can be good....

Gottakeepchanging · 17/03/2011 21:48

A school only goes into an ofsted category for very specific reasons.

One of those is not that a parent doesn't like it

EvilTwins · 17/03/2011 22:03

Merci - you really don't know what you're talking about. Where gave you got your "this is a common approach" bullshit from? And no headteacher would get round an unsatisfactory judgement by claiming it was due to one or two rubbish teachers. Do you really think that's how it works? Head says "it's ok Mr OFSTED inspector, we've got rid of Mr X and Miss Y so can you lift us out of special measure now?"

It really makes me angry that people who have no clue feel that they can comment on such matters with such an air of authority.

Gottakeepchanging · 17/03/2011 22:09

LA funding changed on tne 1st April. Whether they will support failing schools will depend on what they have negotiated re the formula. There certainly will not be any money to support and schools will be expected to support the costs themselves.

Original poster
verybored · 17/03/2011 22:15

It's ok, I wasn't expecting them to place the school on special measures on my say so Grin

However, I just cannot see it doing very well. The last inspectionwas not great and from what I have heard, it has got worse. The intake has changed over the years and instead of adapt, the school has taken the ostrich approach and refused to recognise that it now has some very challenging pupils. Many pupils have left and the sats results are dropping steadily.

The infants, whcih was always better, has just had a satisfactory ofsted, with the worst comments it has ever had. If the infants can't do well, I really can't see the juniors scraping a satisfactory.

My instinct tells me to move them to the lovely primary we sent DS1 to - but I know I get very caught up in things etc but I waited too long to move DS1 before and need to make sure I get this right.

I won't comment on the funding/staffing 'discussion' as I have no clue, which is why I asked in the first place Grin

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Gottakeepchanging · 17/03/2011 22:19

I have led a lot of teacher capabilities. Actually very few leave- most improve.

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