Do you start going to church just to get into a good school?

[Ginabraz]

I have not made any admissions to local schools for my boys as I didn't think that I would still be living in the UK. My eldest is 4 in November and the youngest will be three in February 2012. I am now inwardly panicked as the good schools seem to be run by the churches and neither my DH or myself are church goers. I am willing to attend church even though I fear that it could be too late. DH refuses as he is a non-believer.

Do you or have you started attending church just to improve your chances of getting a place for your child(ren)?

portofino, why I am the worst type of hypocrite ?

What happens when your only village school is a CofE school? Do you have to drive to the next village to possibly get a non faith school?

Kat, not only was our village a CofE school but so was the one in the next village one way.. and the other.. and oh, then the other way was RC just for variety... There was one non-faith school in our general area, which was tiny with no facilities. I assume that it must have been possible to get into some of these schools without attending church - but we didn't want to send DD to a faith school at all.

Oblomov - you love that about the school? I find it disturbing. Very, very disturbing. And there is no way I'd attend church to get dc into a faith school - couldn't care less how "outstanding" it is. Faith schools openly discriminate against children of other/ no faith and they get away with it. That sort of discrimination would be illegal in most workplaces.

What gets on my nerves is that soooo many people would rather back down, attend church and join the local faith school even though they don't believe in a word of it... how about those very same people club together and demand that church & school be separate unless it's a private school? In the US and Australia, all state schools are secular; if you want faith attached to your schooling, you pay for it. The way it should be here IMO.

I love 'what' about the school ?
They have lots of different children at ds's school. in his class they are hugley catholic. but there are a few non catholics, atheists aswell. and plus a few different religion, e.g. one muslim.n not a problem to me.
" Faith schools openly discriminate against children of other/ no faith and they get away with it." Total rubbish. ds's school discusses other faiths in a totally positive way and have visted a synagogue. so what you say does NOT apply to my sons school.

"and join the local faith school even though they don't believe in a word of it"

well thats not me. I chose to go on an alpha course and being fully immersed baptised. I spoke tongues.

I had never known anything about catholic faith, specifically, till I met dh.
But that is not my fault. I am not some sort of scum, you know !!

No

Haven't read anything but the title of this post.
Going to church even for the most superficial reasons has got to be a good thing as far as I'm concerned.
You never know when God might touch your soul. He's always there waiting to be let in.

So what ever the school issue, go to church!

I was goingto post a very similar OP-our primary and secondary schools are very divided by secular=satisfactory or good, faith=outstanding. Places are hugely competitive and the situation at secondary is dire (the secondary is oversubscribed and struggling, grammars, private or moving area the only alternative if you can't get into the faith schools)

My poor little heathens from a loving, stable but humanist home will struggle with admissions policies unless wenare very close to the schools (huge house price premiums)

I Think schools funded by the state should be secular, as our laws etc are. I respect people's faith to much to rock up monthly just to get a form signed, but it does irritate me that I'm even tempted to due to the ridiculous local schooling provision.

Are your children Catholics Oblomov?

kat2504 - in my village there is one infant school, no primary. It's VA CofE. There is a community (non-faith) a short drive away, and various other within short drives. Last year, anyone who wanted to get in, did, religious or not, catchment or not. This has been the case for some time. We're now 'outstanding', and as a result applications are rising. What this means is that non churchgoers out of catchment are being declined for the first time ever. Catchment still over-rides faith. Because it's a small village there won't ever be a child refused even if they're non churchgoing, if they're in catchment. But of those outside catchment, churchgoers will get priority. (This is causing lots of upset amongst those from the nearby town who don't have sibling links eg their children are too far apart in age and will have left Y2 by the time their sib starts in R.)

But isn't it sad that the only way they can experience diversity is by visiting a synagogue as a school trip?? Is that not sad? I have friends from school that are Jewish, CoE, catholic, Jedi etc etc. Your children's school experience to me oblomov sounds rather "full on".

well, yes, i think so. I had them baptised at the church they go to, attached to the school, before they were both 1.5. ds1 is now 7 and totally into it, which melts my heart. and ds2 is only 2. the church was the same one where dh went as a child,a dn all his family ( 6 brothers and sisters, aswell as his mum andf dad got marrieed there) got married there.
is that not o.k. ?

its just me that isn't a TRUE bought up catholic. hardly a crime.

It is full on catholic. And i like thta. Am happy with that. their ethos is particularly loving. and non judgemental. to non believers and other religions.
this sits o.k. with me.

I would have also been happy with a non catholic school. with openess to all religions. iF the school was very good.
But this is the best by far school, in our catchment. infact the other choices are very poor. best in county. thats what i wanted. not just best academically. said to be loving. loving ethos. great school. that IS what I wanted.

My children go to a Catholic school where 46 languages are spoken (at the last count). The three neighbouring non-church schools are much more white and middle class. Go figure.

Since the OP seems to be having a little trouble grasping the concept of hypocrisy, here is an ABC guide to why attending church solely in order to get your kids into a particular school is wrong (not that it should need explaining, but there we go):

A. It is teaching your children that it's okay to lie and pretend in order to get something that you want.

B. By avoiding the multicultural school you are teaching them that they are too precious and special to mix with people who are not exactly like them. And that's the polite description, I can think of others.

C. You are taking away a place from a family who genuinely practise their faith and want the support of the school in bringing up their children in that religion.

D. You are giving all people of faith a bad name by furthering the impression that everybody who practises their religion does so in order to gain a material advantage.

If you want to do it anyway, then go ahead, I'm sure you'll find plenty of other hypocrites people like you. I just hope the priest sees right through you.

Sheesh.

Ob - you said: "The school is very catholic and ds is very into it. I love that." I'm afraid that you're in the wrong about faith schools and discrimination. If I put my dc, as children of 'no faith' down for the local Jewish/ Catholic/ CofE schools, they wouldn't get in, because we do not practice that faith. That is discrimination on the grounds of religious belief, in my dc's case, that is 'no belief'.

So, your ds visited a synagogue and they 'discuss' other faiths? That's great. But you also said they practice the Catholic faith, praying 3/ 4 times a day etc There is no other way of getting round it; faith schools encourage separatism by indoctrinating children with their belief systems. The very admission systems, intrinsic values and dogmatic approach to "teaching" religion in faith schools is, by nature, wholly opposed to diversity, inclusivity and mutual respect regardless of faith.

I still think it is wrong. State education is a right for all and should be separate from religion, which is a choice for all.
I don't believe in the notion of Catholic children, Cof E children, Muslim children etc.
They are children. They have not made up their own mind. The religious persuasions of their parents should not affect their chances in education.
Education is for school and "christian ethos" is for churches.

"C. You are taking away a place from a family who genuinely practise their faith and want the support of the school in bringing up their children in that religion. "

May not be true. In ds's year a few non catholics got places. so hardly depriving a catholic. depends what the submission of each year is. if one year, the applicants are not so many cathlics, then no one is depriving anyone.

Plus on our form, that you submit with your application, you state whether you attend weekly, fortnightly, every 2 weeks, 3 out of 4, monthly, quarterly, yearly. not at all. has to be signed by priest.
so who have i prevented from getting in ?

"Ob - you said: "The school is very catholic and ds is very into it. I love that." I'm afraid that you're in the wrong about faith schools and discrimination. If I put my dc, as children of 'no faith' down for the local Jewish/ Catholic/ CofE schools, they wouldn't get in, because we do not practice that faith. That is discrimination on the grounds of religious belief, in my dc's case, that is 'no belief'"
wammy, you could get into our school. they have non catholic applicants, who do get in. so you are not discriminated against.

i think its wrong as well, its like those people who start attending church purely to get married in a nice setting, or to have their child christened, all the time moaning about having to attend/its a load of nonsense etc, so they not only have no belief in their wedding vows but have no belief in the religion they have chosen for their child.. mad

I was addressing the OP who is trying to get a place at an over-subscribed C of E school.

I totally agree with you Kat. What makes me so very is that faith schools - as well as many people of faith - feel they have a monopoly on moral and ethical values, such as 'being kind' or 'being polite and well-mannered', 'helping people less fortunate'. Criminals appear to get reduced sentences if they are 'committed to faith'. If they were so committed to their faith, why would they commit a crime in the first instance? It's all so hypocritical.

In the last couple of years, I've known a few people to go through some terrible times; divorce due to adultery, fraud, decption and fall-outs due to lies/ manipulation... all of those involved were allegedly 'morally upstanding' church members. It's the hypocrisy of it all I can't stand.

Oblomov, I praying that God will allow my dd to start in pre-school in a great RC school where her cousin is. It is hugely oversubscribed so despite regular church attendance it is a "lottery" to get in. Remember us in your prayers please - every little helps as tesco they say!

I do understand that parents are frustrated by the lack of real choice in schools for their dc, as I am. This is a heavily overpopulated island though...

wishing you all the best Snupp.

Spammywammy, hypocracy is surely not limited merely by those who are openly religious? I see it in politicians of all faiths and no faith, in business leaders and civil servants. Not that there aren't hypocrites who are religious though, of course there are.