Do you remember a question about free school admissions? Here's the answer

[PollyParanoia]

Hello, a while ago I started a thread about admissions for free schools, specifically about the West London Free School. I was wondering, since its site seemed to be a long way from where Toby Young etc lived, then how would their children be guaranteed a place.
Well, derr, silly me, apparently anyone on the steering committee gets their child in automatically. According to this Guardian piece.
I just don't see how this is open, transparent, verifiable and in accordance with admissions criteria of other schools. If you attend a meeting once, are you on the steering committee? If you signed an early petition? Made a donation to the campaign? You only had to look at that TV programme to see how self-selecting these groups are ie no one who doesn't speak English as a first language etc. If, for example, a parent of a child with behavioural issues tried to get onto the steering committee, how welcome would they be?
I don't know, I'm getting myself into a tizz about it, but the whole free school policy just seems to be a botch job that's being rushed through with the rules changing all the time to suit.

Why shouldn't they get priority, after putting in all that work to set up the school, over at least the last three years? Plenty of other state secondary schools are self-selecting for all sorts of other reasons. Are you suggesting that catchments aren't self-selecting?
From what I hear from someone who got in (and is delighted), plenty of people who did get a place in the lottery didn't take up their place (eggs in baskets etc), so why shouldn't the people who were committed to the original ideal be encouraged? I think the numbers would be pretty small.

The issue here is whether a state financed school, with its premises bought and paid for by the state, should be treated as if it were the private property of some sort of "steering group".

I also look forward to the first litigation when someone claims to be entitled to a place by virtue of membership of the steering committee, and the rest of the "members" have said they had not "done enough" to count.

The admission criteria of free schools will have to be fair and objective. Any priority given to children of members of the steering committee will have to be clearly stated and it must be obvious how and to whom it applies. If anyone believes their child has been placed in the wrong admission category the normal appeal process will apply and an independent appeal panel will decide. I would be very surprised if we see any litigation on this subject.

With only £50M available for capital funding of free schools, I suspect that most will not be using premises bought and paid for by the state.

gosh - prh47bridge - do you write papers all day or something? am loving the language

In regard to Toby Young and his mob, there was a piece in Private Eye outlining their aim to have named 'feeder schools' regarding admissions, rather than distance catchment, thus circumventing the 'council estate' school and giving preference to those from the middle class area further away.

Aren't H&F council also chucking established voluntary groups out of the building for this project?

Yes Polly I saw this and laughed - Tarquin you can put down the violin we won't be needing to get in on the music scholarship now after all.

Interestingly and a side issue but isn't it rather non-inclusive and rather faith-based to call your autumn, spring etc terms Michaelmas, Lent and Trinity?

You what? Michelmas, lent and trinity? Like oxford? Jeeeeez. It's beyond parody. What next? Gowns and mortar boards? Siblings called major and minor? Caning?

Are you Polly Toynbee, Polly?
I repeat, there is plenty of public money going to schools with a catchment area that includes a high proportion of "richer" "more privileged" people. Is anyone screening the admissions to those schools on the basis that it is unfair that only people who can afford to live in that catchment can get in? No.

Do you live near the Free School? Do you send your children to a comprehensive with a mixed intake? Are you happy with it? What are your reasons for feeling so narked by Mr Young's plan? Anyone can apply for the school, there is no exam. Why be so sour grapes about a very few people who have put their heart into something that could benefit lots of locals...

And are you Toby Young, swanriver?

Er, yes in answer to your question about catchments, that's why Brighton, Greenwich and some other LEAs use random allocation for secondary schools.

There are lots of things that piss me off about free schools and the like, tbh, but I sense that you're not feeling open to reasoned debate .

And to add a little to what prh47bridge said.

The article does not say that "anyone on the steering committee gets their child in automatically". It says that that could be the case if the school admissions code is amended in a way that makes it possible to give priority to children of parents on the steering group (which, under the code as it stands, it would not be). There is going to be a consultation about the revised code.

Ah, one of the transparent and accountable consultations that the current government is well renowned for.

I think Toby's kids and his mates' kids will be going there somehow.

Maybe so. Nonetheless, I think it's important not to misrepresent what the Guardian article actually says.

Loving the idea that Polly Toynbee comes onto mumsnet and chooses that name!
I am anti anything that benefits the many but this has potential to benefit the few at the expense of many. Even if you feel neutral the way it's been rushed through is very dubious.

Yes, the choice of term names (as well as compulsory Latin and so on) is designed as a rather obvious piece of social engineering. You can't select on class (shame), but you can send subliminal messages that discourage (some if not all) of those not middle class.

Don't know what "Michaelmas" means? Then don't send your child here - they won't fit in..

etc

I was informed by my primary school head (not in London) that EVERY school in the country has had it's technology grant slashed to provide for free schools. We've already spent our grant so funds have to cone from elsewhere. We may have to lose sine TAs.

I am so angry with this, which was compounded by a friend announcing how pleased they are that they don't have to bother with Latymer now that Toby Young's school is round the corner.

I despair of this Government, I really do.

Oh, and we only have one referral to the education psychologist so we get to play paper scissors stone over which child with suspected SEN gets it this year.

People are so quick to cry sour grapes when privileges are being banded about but it's not sour grapes. It's about fairness and social justice which seem to have disappeared into the Ether of late.

Why can't funds and efforts be poured into improving Chiswick High? I'm sure with so much parental fervour and gov funds wonders could bs achieved. Oh, but what to do about the poor people.

Exactly,messiebessie.

This is yet another example of the government and their cronies leeching from the poorer sectors of society to feather their own nests. Which is what the Tory's are about, but it's the GLEE with which they're pissing on everyone else that is so stomach churning.

The school that a friend of mine has kids at has just had to end the contract of several of the TAs. So her daughter (who isn't statmented but has complex emotion needs due to being adopted and her early life experiences) has had to say goodbye to the TA who had helped her to actually start to enjoy school over the course of 3 years.

But as long as Toby and his chum's kids are learning Latin paid for by the tax payer, who cares, eh?

£50m - might seem a large sum. But it's a tiny drop in the ocean of our annual education spend. You really can't blame every IT budget cut and TA loss on set up of Free Schools.

Fair enough Jack. But £50m is an awful lot of TAs to be lost when new schools are being set up in areas with adequate provision.

Chiswick Community School (is that what you mean by Chiswick High School?) is oversubscribed (it had 702 applications in 2010 for 215 places. Only 149 people got in on their first choice out of 200 applicants, and only 22 got in (out of 141) who had it as their second choice. It also teaches Latin.

I didn't even apply for the Free School. I did apply for Chiswick Community School. I got into my first choice which was another state school.
Surely we are all entitled to have some choices about what kind of State education our children get? Every state school in our area has a specialism of some kind anyway, Music, Language, Maths, Science, ICT. Their provision in that subject is marginally better than other state schools in the area. When you look round the schools you weigh up not only how near they are, but how likely it is that that school will suit your child's talents. All the Free school does is expand the provision in an area where there are not enough state secondary schools which offer a range of provision.
If you can provide information about other schools I should be considering for my younger children in this part of West London, I would be delighted to get feedback.

All schools are oversubscribed, as parents put down several choices. I'd say 75% 1st choice allocation was pretty good. Believe it or not, it is not a god given right to have a choice of secondary education based on your particular preferences. Not at the expense of less privileged areas.

I said there was adequate state school provision, which there is. If the standard is not up to scratch, that needs working on NOT hiving off all the middle class kids.

messy - I guess if you're happy with our current education system and see no need for change - then the Free School initiative isn't going to make much sense.

IMO - the handful of Free Schools are a relatively cheap way to see if we can do things better. Toby Young's 'Grammar Comprehensive' is fascinating. The idea that all children can benefit from a robustly academic education (regardless of ability) is very interesting. I actually have my own doubts - but applaud him for having the energy to try.

I can't answer your question about West London schools, swanriver, as I don't live there, but mb is making the point that trying to improve (and expand) what is already in existence is more useful to more people than using public funds to set up a provision that is very explicitly geared towards middle class, Christian-lite types.

In areas where there aren't enough school places, the usual response has been to expand the existing schools, but Toby and his mates haven't flagged up insufficient provision as one of the reasons for their Free School, rather 'customer choice' (as long as they're first in the queue.)

Will Toby Young still give a stuff about the school once HIS kids have left or will it then fold?