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Original poster

Is this proper English homework?

190 replies

optimist66 · 11/03/2011 07:00

My DS1 who is in Year 3 completed his "English" home work, last night. Sorry, it's not called "English" - it's called "Literacy". He is at a state school.

His home work was about the use of "onomatopoeia" words. These are the use of words whose sound suggests the sense of what is happening. DS1 had to design an advertisement for a cereal.

Am I wrong in thinking that this is a weak and namby pamby way of discussing use of sounds. Where is the greating traditional way of discussing the rules of Grammar - complemented by an indepth building of Vcabulary and Comprehension skills.

He is on the top table, and a level 3b

Am I expecting too much, as I always see homework of weak substance given to him?

OP posts:
JaneS · 14/03/2011 14:35

Grin Well, they obviously had more fun playing around with name spellings than we did. Chaucer is pretty consistent, though, I think.

I suspect we could criticize grammar in both their work - though I do love that bit in Macbeth when someone tells Donalbain his dad's been murdered and he replies 'Oh, by whom?'.

Verrrry hard to say something that grammatically precise and still sound shocked! Grin

mrz · 14/03/2011 17:03

MIFLAW the rhyme was intended as light hearted fun nothing more.

So when my Y2 class studied Macbeth last year and The Tempest this year they were decoding?

bitsyandbetty · 14/03/2011 17:11

My YR2 dd has just done Macbeth and they absolutely loved it. I was very embraced. We did not reach Shakespeare until secondary and I really loved it. Glad to see they are doing this at primary now to avoid kids finding it a chore later on. My little one came home with a picture of the witches she did on the computer with 'bubling poisun'. Her spelling not great but her interest in literature that is normally seen as high brow as per Jaimie Oliver's programme was lovely to see. Having studied English at A'Level and Languages at degree level, grammer is very important but loving literature (old and modern) and loving to write for me is just as important. I write all day long as part of my job and learning to communicate with all levels of people is a skill that we have a real shortage of. Not just being able to communicate with high brow people but anyone. Very difficult for some people and therefore learning to write a really good brochure or poster is a very good skill.

mummytime · 14/03/2011 17:50

Have to say that posters/leaflets do have a point, as they do show teachers what the children actually remember/know. The kids also often like them and don't feel threatened. It is also good as you can usually find something nice to say eg. beautiful lettering. Even when you have to go away and re-plan everything because they seem to have forgotten everything you've ever taught them.

inspireddance · 14/03/2011 17:53

Great homework. Your DC is applying their knowledge to a 'real-life' situation.

What is the problem?

exoticfruits · 14/03/2011 17:56

The advantage of the homework was that it shows that real grown ups apply it in real life! I think it comes as a surprise to find that advertisers actually use things from English lessons-not something you glean from exercises.

IHeartKingThistle · 14/03/2011 18:07

Leaping onto a side point on this thread a bit but are Year 2 children really doing Macbeth? It is still a set text at GCSE - HOW am I supposed to get a stroppy teenager engaged when he tells me he's 'done' it?! Confused

I have no real issue with primary schools using Shakespeare, but I wish they'd stay away from the GCSE texts. For a lot of older kids the story is how you get their interest - if they already know it then they find it MORE of a chore, not less, when they get to me.

Sorry lovely primary school teachers. I have just spent a long long weekend marking Year 7 writing and I just wish they could write in sentences when they leave primary school, never mind doing Shakespeare.

Sigh...

MIFLAW · 14/03/2011 18:44

"MIFLAW the rhyme was intended as light hearted fun nothing more."

Yes, but it's light-hearted "fun" that you sets itself up as the be-all and end-all - or, at least, a priority - in native language teaching.

"So when my Y2 class studied Macbeth last year and The Tempest this year they were decoding?" Well, yes. How else did they understand what it was about? Do you think we're born with a magic knowledge of a native tongue, like having Microsoft 2007 plugged into our heads? We all decode messages all the time. True, when we get very good at it in one or more languages we don't notice we're doing it, and we often start to call that reading or even appreciating a text. But of course you're still decoding it - that's why it makes you laugh (or cry) and not your cat!

mrz · 14/03/2011 18:50

good grief IHeartKingThistle do you honestly think a 6 year old is studying texts at the same depth as GCSE? It's also studied in Y6 Grin

sentences??
Ananse, the ugly spider man spun a web up to the sky and bowed low before Nyame, god of all things. Then he whispered ?Oh wise Nyame please may I have your golden box of stories??

Ananse the spider man woke up feeling insignificant but then he had a brilliant idea. If only he could get his hands on Nyame?s box of stories he would be famous.

Up, up, up, where the clouds shook and rumbled, lived Nyame, god of all things. Nyame kept all of the stories in the world. He kept them in a box, not an ordinary box, it was a story box. He shared them with no one... Down, down, down, in the jungle Ananse lived.

from 6 year olds.

exoticfruits · 14/03/2011 18:57

I don't honestly think the average yr10/11 is going to recall in detail what they did in yr2. Does this mean they can't see, read the play in case they then say they 'have done it'?

mrz · 14/03/2011 18:58

MIFLAW, if studying a text was limited to decoding it wouldn't make me (or anyone) laugh or cry ...there needs to be understanding of the structure of the English language, to comprehend and what we are decoding... to evoke those emotions.

exoticfruits · 14/03/2011 18:58

If they did actually remember some of it I would think it a help-not a hinderance. I always enjoy Shakespeare more when I know the story.

IHeartKingThistle · 14/03/2011 19:03

I KNOW it isn't studied at the same level. That doesn't solve the issue - I still have to get them engaged and they think they've done it!

Please don't get offended about the sentences thing. The majority of Year 7 students I see struggle with it and I wish they were more secure when they came to me, that's all. That piece of writing is lovely, really lovely. 'He kept them in a box, not an ordinary box, it was a story box' isn't accurate though. Amazing for a 6 year old but most of my 12-year-olds are still using commas like that, which becomes a problem.

Oh God I really don't want to sound like I'm criticising a 6-year-old's punctuation! I'm not mean - I'm just so tired of circling commas!

mrz · 14/03/2011 19:14

Actually the work is from 3 different 6 year olds and it is the first drafts I brought home tonight typed exactly as they were written.

A long, long time ago all the stories in the world belonged to Nyame, the god of all things.

Ananse the poor, ugly spider man wanted Nyame's golden box of stories so that he would be popular. So he spun a web, up, up to heaven.

Ananse the hideaus spider woke up one morning feeling bad about himself. He wished he had all the stories in the world then people would like him.

another 3 6 year olds.

IHeartKingThistle · 14/03/2011 19:15

Sorry, x-posted.

They probably don't remember it from Year 2. It's not that big a deal really. If they love it, great. I just don't get why it has to be the play that's used at GCSE!

IHeartKingThistle · 14/03/2011 19:17

Mrz, you don't have to prove that YOU teach puntuation. Clearly you do - your students' writing is lovely.

Not everybody does though, or my Year 7s would be able to put a comma in the right place! Grin

mrz · 14/03/2011 19:22

I'm not trying to prove I do anything I'm showing my Y2s can write as well as decode.

IHeartKingThistle · 14/03/2011 19:24

I can't believe I just spelt punctuation wrong. Blush

Himalaya · 14/03/2011 19:53

Posters -arghh. My DS (yr 7) understands this to mean 'put some facts on a piece of A4' - how many facts? Enough to cover the space and look respectable... Which seems to be the marking criteria.

Or do a PowerPoint presentation - much the same thing - put some facts on a slide.

It doesn't teach them to structure an argument, marshal facts for a purpose, analyse etc...

Do they really do this for two more years?

This homework sounds fab.

At least it's not a bloody wordsearch.

FreudianSlippery · 14/03/2011 22:34

Fill-in-the-blanks are worst IMO. Admittedly they teach how do use process of elimination (and sod all else) but after the millionth one set for HW they are a tad tiresome...

MIFLAW · 15/03/2011 10:15

"MIFLAW, if studying a text was limited to decoding it wouldn't make me (or anyone) laugh or cry ...there needs to be understanding of the structure of the English language, to comprehend and what we are decoding... to evoke those emotions."

I think you are using the word "decode" in quite a limited way. "there needs to be understanding of the structure of the English language" - structural understanding = decoding. "to comprehend" = decoding. Anything that involves making sense of a text, in the broadest possible scope = decoding.

It would be lovely if romantic ideas about having a "feeling" for the language were true. But they are not. All our engagement with a text - or indeed speech - must come from what is on the page in black and white (the code) and the experience we bring to that text, experience of other texts as well as experience of life, in order to make sense of it (decoding). I'm sorry if you don't like the word decoding, or if you think it means less than it does, but there you go. We decode texts and as a direct result we can understand and (where relevant) enjoy them. The fact that, in our native language, we are not aware of doing so does not mean that it is not happening, any more than you stop breathing if you forget you are doing it.

qumquat · 15/03/2011 18:10

I think it sounds like great homework. It's very important that language is learnt and applied in context. The task will get the kids to think about onomatopeia creatively and apply it to a real life situation. Higher ability kids can really go to town creating their own words (and applying correct grammar too them), lower ability kids can experiment with manipulating the basics.

I think English grammar is taught much better now than when I was at school (I'm 32). I didn't know what an adjective was until I studied adjective endings in Yr 10 German. Now I'd be shocked if any of my incoming Yr 7s didn't know what an adjective was.

mrz · 15/03/2011 18:13

Oddly enough MIFLAW the "romantic idea" of a "feeling" was from your post ...

qumquat · 15/03/2011 18:33

And to join in on the ancient language issue (sorry reading the thread backwards) I always argue that grammar and etymology-wise it makes more sense for kids to study anglo-saxon, as English is a Germanic language not a Romance one.

mrz · 15/03/2011 18:44

We still retain many Anglo Saxon words in my local dialect Grin about 80% are Angle in origin.

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