Can you instill work ethic? Prevent some of the issues with teenagers/work going forward?

[Cortina]

I've read the thread about motivating teenagers with interest.

I can only give anecdotal examples but I've made a few observations over the years about the parents that have incredibly committed children who studied hard and those that don't. Broadly if good habits are instilled when the children are young I believe you are less likely to have a problem later on. Writing it down this seems blindingly obvious to me at least.

If you push too hard and have unrealistic expectations your children will probably rebel however if you've insisted on high standards, homework completed well before deadline etc when the children are very young the chances are they will have good study habits later in life.

Those I know with teenage boys in particular were very laid back about homework, deadlines etc. They gave no real support early on and made no demands. The boys were allowed to play computer games and outside with their friends, study outside of school not a priority.

When the boys turned 11 or 12 the parents tried to get them to work and the boys refused. Many very able boys got Cs or Ds in GCSEs when they were capable of far more. The parents shrugged and said 'what could we do? we tried everything'. It breaks my heart to think of a few young lads I know in dead end jobs when they had the ability to do far, far more. They may go on to do well in time of course.

I came from a 'fly by the seat of your pants' family. Library books were always lost, packed lunches made at the last minute with stale bread and yoghurt past its sell by date etc. Buses would be missed, I would arrive at school aged 6 in odd socks, you get the picture. No help on school projects etc. It meant I have stressed and felt that I was likely to fail somehow.

I am trying to instill calm in my family. To tell my son the rules are he does homework, spellings or project work immediately it's set. Library books have a special place, packed lunch is prepared in advance etc. So far so good. I am sure that I could have a rude awakening down the line but at least I am trying and I think these things DO make a difference.

When I look at those who have children who are self starters and have achieved high grades at GCSE etc even if not hugely 'bright' the parents have without exception had a great work ethic. They've modeled that work and life can be tough but setbacks can be overcome with a positive mindset. From the age that the first set work comes home there are no excuses, work assignments/homework/projects HAVE to be done and begun practically as soon as they are set.

There's usually been a love of learning promoted & encouraged from early on too. It also has to be said that great deal of time was invested in the children from an early age.

Something else I've observed in friends with 2 or 3 children, again just my own experience and not sure if it applies my broadly? With the first child the books were out on the table every Sunday, sometimes all day Sunday. The Mum was on the phone to her friend as they discussed science homework in depth. I was called at work to discuss grammar rules. The Mums seemed to assign 'mentors' in every subject for their DCs from when they were about 8 years old.

DC would end up at a grammar or highly selective school where there was a high % of A*s. Peer group hard working and driven etc.

With DC2 it was a different story. Mum was usually burnt out by then and found that she couldn't invest as heavily in their education. That child usually wasn't as 'academic' it turned out in the long run?

When I was a child, I don't think I really needed to be encouraged to have a 'work ethic'. I don't think my parents were ever particularly involved in my homework, I just got on with it. I found school work fairly easy and also it seemed to come naturally to me to want to please adults and to conform to rules. Some of that mindset could have been due to early childhood experiences, but I can't help thinking there is something innate in children that determines how much they would mind being told off at school for not having done their homework, for example.

Porpoise re: something innate that determines how bothered children are about consequences of not doing homework, I think early on at least this depends on the reaction of school and home.

Our form tutor collected our homework books and would count them to check all were there. If any were missing there was hell to pay! She was seriously scary and even the loudest, toughest boy was secretly scared. Any non homework doers were singled out for a barrage of abuse. I'd hand in another book with a similar colour cover to fool her & later intercept it from outside the relevant subject teacher's classroom - the subject teacher would be soft about it so I knew I could get away with it.

There need to be consequences for shoddy or no homework & a culture of high expectations.

Totally agree

Our school gives no consequences if they dont do what little homework they get. So the kids dont bother doing it.

Cortina Yes, you are making a lot of sense. It's the work ethic that counts rather than what you make the kids work on IMO.
Yes, you need to be well-organised to get the best out of your DCs. They need to know that their stuff is ready to hand, clean and in working order. They will achieve more if they have space, quiet, right equipment.
On the other hand they won't work if they are not reminded. My DCs would still not be able to read yet if I hadn't pushed them and prodded them when they were 6, 7, 8. They both admit now that reading is one of the biggest pleasures in life and they are avid readers but it didn't happen by accident.

Children copy what they see at home ( as well as at school) Ours see DH getting up 6.30 every day and going off to work. They see me working part-time and also keeping busy at various other little "jobs" in the home and family. They take that as their role model and I wouldn't want it any other way.
I had a mother who never kept a diary and rarely looked at the calendar. I have had to train myself to be super-organised and watch dates, times, appointments for all the family and myself. It doesn't come naturally. I think what I'm trying to say is you can achieve if you really make the effort. Lots of people blame bad luck/other people for their own lack of success. It takes effort to succeed at anything in life. Some people just don't want to put in that effort.

I definitely think it's possible to go too far towards the direction of 'order' in a child's life. Order, routine, organisation - yes they are important, but a bit of chaos is a good learning experience too. It's all part of the rough and tumble of family life, helps to develop flexibility, and I wouldn't want to be without it.

When I had one child, all was perfectly in order, but must say with each successive child the order has ... become more disorderly! And I think this is much to the children's benefit. Two at top universities doing well, two younger ones also seem to be achieving well at school so seems to work.

Your family sounds like it was much more fun than your husband's - yuck!

I agree with your point though about getting them used to homework/diligence when they're young.

Although there'll be exceptions both ways, I increasingly agree with this. My dcs go to an independent schools where they've been doing homework since nursery. Initially it was just 5 minutes a day fun phonics stuff and reading and then maths games etc building up to more serious work at prep stage from age 7. Point being homework is just part of my dcs' routine. They would no more think to question homework than they would question getting dressed, brushing teeth or having breakfast.

Often it's fun and the sort of stuff we do anyway like reading but as it's been getting harder for dc1, the routine has been incredibly helpful and helped to avoid battles. They have a brilliant ethic now and are used to getting their bags after tea and sitting down and getting it done before play/chilling.

Now dd1 is in prep school,the school has a policy of no homework over weekends unless there's catch up (work they didn't finish during the week). Once again it really instills the idea that if you get things done they don't hang over you and you can enjoy yourself.

TBH, these are things I wish I had learned earlier. I'm naturally a terrible procrastinator and watching my kids' experience of school has taught me a few lessons even now.

Fivecandles - same for me absolutely! I am learning all the time. Crossword, your mother sounds like mine! It doesn't come naturally to me either, I find it very difficult to stay on task. I have to double check everything and seem to have inherited an absent minded gene. This said I believe, like many things, you can overcome seemingly inherent disorganisation in time.

Homework being part of the routine is something I am hoping for and working towards. None of what's been described guarantees a teenager who is willing to work, driven, self motivation etc but it must help.

Agree Gooftroop. Would disagree re: the fun aspect being in any way positive or a trade off for super disorganised parents etc. Fun my Mum might have been but that awful sinking feeling as I was late yet again and pulled up for it etc, not good & didn't make for a positive start to school life.

IMO there's only so much you can do in terms of routine/instilling work ethic. What makes a teenager willing to work is positive reinforcement from the start when work is done and more so when results are acheived, someone who values learning for leaning's sake and knowng how to work effectively to get results. Otherwise you're just going to get horrifically DEmotivated even if you do all your homework.

If you look at music for example you can play your 'homework' through 5 times, badly, without focusing. That ticks the box of having DONE it for the required length of time. Or you can do 5 minutes focusing on and perfecting the tricky bit. Which givess you better results? It's not the doing which counts, it's the target.

I definitely want to instill a good work ethic in my DCs. Not just hard work, but enthusiasm for learning. Very early days as DD is only 3.8... BUT so far she loves 'maths' and has been asking for homework since she turned 2 - this is because I am doing an OU degree and she's seen me study with enthusiasm since she was tiny. I just give her colouring, dotted lines to trace etc. She sees learning about letters and numbers as play so far, we've got beads, magnets etc so it's a game to her.

Again, I know it's early days but IMO the longer she sees it as fun the better!

My DSCs are very poorly supported by their mum, who doesn't care about school (unless they get a bad grade or detention, then she screams at them). The eldest has wasted his time at school, he's smart but was very complacent. We see the younger DSCs go the same way now. We really try to help but as they don't live with us it is very hard to have much positive influence :(

Having had fairly hands off parents when it came to my education, and being far from alone, I wonder if part of the problem now is that far more is expected/required of parents? It used to be possible, if you like, to get all your grounding, inspiration, drive and early 'work ethic' from school? Homework wasn't optional and teachers had more power.

It seems to me at the very least teachers assume the basics will be reinforced at home, daily reading, maths games, cooking to reinforce measuring etc. Later, by Y3, they imagine that someone is on hand to 'guide' project work etc. Those that have solid help and support are at a huge advantage.

Some parents even teach children at home and assume anything they do at school is a bonus. If you are a child and come from a home today and have parents who either can't - due to work and other pressures - or won't help you do you lose out more than you would have done in the past?

"I wonder if part of the problem now is that far more is expected/required of parents?"

You have to ask? (very genuine)

Sorry, yes, completely stating the obvious. I am relatively 'new' to it all at the moment, so forgive me if it's all come as a bit of a shock :). Can't believe how things have shifted from no expectations or assumptions about parental assistance to now.

I think much of what I've said about 'work ethic' is also fairly obvious but not sure if that's the consensus.

This thread is close to my heart at the moment because it's so relevant to our situation. Our DDs are in an academic independent selective school and have industrial amounts of homework (in Year 8) DH is now complaining to me because most weekends in term time are taken up with homework that was not completed during the week. To be fair, all their work is handed in on time and they have never missed a deadline. However, there is a lot of nagging and prodding (from me) along the way to keep the ship moving forwards. At parents' evening the teachers give them glowing reports and say how well they are doing co-operativve and well-organised etc. I smile and nod and think "Yeah but only because \I nag for Britain". Anyway yesterday DH said he is sick of giving up every weekend to HW and when are we going to go out on a Saturday/Sunday for a bit of family time. DDs go to their Nanna's two evenings a week so by the time they get back it is too late to do HW. Also they do CCF Friday evening so that is out too. That leaves Two evenings to do five nights' worth of HW. So of course they have to catch up at weekends. Nanna time is very precious to them as she is 86 and lives close by. She has always had them for two evenings because I am working. Can't see the way forward. I've tried telling them to stay in school after 4pm and they could get a bit done in the library but they just come home at 4pm and say they forgot.
Apparently all I do is shout and nag (according to DH) So what's the answer? I can't bear the thought of giving up on them when they've got a golden opportunity to make something of their lives. So many of my friends' DCs are leaving school this summer with NO GCSEs. What future do they have?

Crossword. Why not try for a few weeks to stop nagging. At some point they have to learn to do this themselves and see how it goes. Let them take responsibility, assuming they may get detention if they do not do the homework. They are doing it for themselves then and not you. Try experimenting. We did that with my DS and remind him one but if not done we let him explain to the teacher. He soon started doing it on his own

This is a work school/life balance that needs to be sorted out within your family and your DD need to take responsibility for this.

It horrifies me though that so many families home life are ruined because of the amount of homework given. Social life outside school is just as important as filling in books, why cant kids do the work when at school?

I know how much stress I get in when my DC dont do the tiny bit of homework they get, I am dreading the day when they are expected to do extra hours at home every week. What happens then to the football, swimming, dancing, rugby, music, playing and all the other things they want to do. there isnt enough hours in the day.

I think the key to having hardworking children is to praise them for trying rather than for "being clever".

It's interesting. I sympathise, Cortina, having also come from a chaotic family myself. DH came from a shiny and orderly one, privately educated, immaculately kept home. I was state school, chaotic home, family always in debt, disorganised scruff. Yet we end up married. So our very different habits and lives amount to living in the same house, sharing the same income. How differently has his well-planned life turned out from my crazy one? He was quite restricted so dropped out of law school to do an arts degree. I was a bloody minded creature who loathed the lacklustre attitude of my school so bunked off and taught myself instead and got into a great university.

I try to be orderly for my kids' sake, and am far better than my parents were. Their packed lunch is always fresh and healthy, their clothes are always, always clean (shudder with memory at my five day old blackened with grime socks I used to wear.) They have never once been late for school in five years.

But I am inconsistent. Some days I lay their clothes out, help with piano practise, make sure home work is in on time, forms are filled in and back to school by deadline, and sometimes I fail in all these. I am incredibly disorganised and absent-minded. I'd love to know how not to pass these traits on to my DCs. I set up schemes for them to get into an after school routine but our days are all different because of my work, DHs work and their clubs, so there is no set routine that fits each day. I'd love to learn more about how to handle this better.

I agree 100% with reallytired.