Lucky to have the choice -but still traumatised by it! HOW have those of you with real choices made your decisions?

[bayleaf]

I know I'm going to sound like I have some sort of O/C disorder as frankly I am making choosing dd1's secondary school into a life changing epic - except that I can't get away from the feeling that it might BE life changing - and given that I am privileged enough to have choices, I should use the wisely....
I have been considering/researching/visiting for about 18months - and have 6 months to go till I need to decide.
I have visited/read inspection reports ( over and over!) and asked around and around and around. I've eventually got it down to 3...

One is small and local and slightly selective but not very, very big on the whole child, one is 25 mins away and very much a 'grammar school' ( tho a private one) competitive entry exam, both visits there emphasised that they are about RESULTS - yes they do all the normal extra curricular stuff - but the academic stuff comes first and they make no apology for it.
The third is also 25 mins away - as academic as the second option but very much more in a 'whole child' context. An excellent school- but also the most expensive!

I suppose my main 'fear' is that dd who is bright - and probably bright enough to get into any of them - but only medium high on self confidence, will 'suffer' crisises of self esteem when she is ''only'' in second set in a very academic school - and feel that she is ''not very bright really'' just because EVERYBODY around her is bright.

I went to a comprehensive and was clever - so I had evidence of there being tens of children less able than me, not that I particularly noticed it at the time, but with hindsight I think I got to uni feeling very much 'top of the tree' which was good in terms of academic self confidence.

I teach myself and see students who are at the bottom of top set ( in a comp) beating themselves up and saying they 'are really dim' How much worse must it be for somebody who isn't right at the top in a grammar school?

Any experience anybody???

Ds wasn't 'right at the top' in a grammar school - in fact he was nowhere near it! He didn't have the most perfect secondary education, as, apart from being academically average, he was also crap at rugby, football and cricket!

However, the alternative to the grammar brought me out in a cold sweat, so I can forgive it all its numerous failings (just about).

Well. I asked ds which one he liked.

Depends on the choices. We have one very high achiever who copes very well in 2nd set at a school that expects him to get 12 A* at IGCSE. We have one top average who for self esteem really needs to be allowed to rise to the top and be nurtured. I went to a good school where I was regarded as "thick" and felt thick but wasn't really even though I didn't go to uni and never thought of myself as clever.

DD got five offers last year - two state, three indy. We took money out of the equation and went for a very local, three form entry school where we were certain that academically she would rise to the top. We thought we were doing the right thing but it has been an utter disaster. Institutionalised bullying, retraction from excellence, and now an announcement that the school will grow to four form entry. The three indys are all full and our triumph of twelve months ago is a DISASTER. We were sold a pup and I am still reeling at the disingenuity of it all.

Our choices were -

1. Highly selective all girls independent.
2. Less selective, more rounded all girls independent.
3. Grammar

TBH, I thought we pick number 1. or 3. but ultimately DD loved 2.

It is so nurturing and the breadth of sports, music, arts and drama is worth the silly price tag.

That said, DD is a self starter. Her expectations for herself are very high. I don't know if I would have agreed to it if she were more laid back and in need of a push.

DS on the other hand will go to the boys equivalent of 1. He will thrive on it and needs very little in the way of nurturing.
He's also not interested in drama and art etc

Face it: there is no perfect school.
You are a mum: whatever choice you make, you will feel guilty.
Does that help?

Seeing she is called DD1, I presume that there are other DC in the pipeline. What will you do for them - is it more important to find the 'right school for the child' or is it more important that they all go to the same school (nice for them, shared memories; nice for you, less running around like a headless chicken).
If you really can't decide then go for the local one. There is nothing to beat having mates on the doorstep. Sod's law says that if you live 25 minutes from school then DD1's best mate will live 25 minutes in the opposite direction so it is a 2 hour round trip to visit her.
If you are worried about confidence then make sure she does lots of out-of-school stuff so she can mix with all sorts of others. Don't let school be her sole definition.

"I went to a comprehensive and was clever - so I had evidence of there being tens of children less able than me, not that I particularly noticed it at the time, but with hindsight I think I got to uni feeling very much 'top of the tree' which was good in terms of academic self confidence."

That can cut two ways. I went to Uni with someone who came from a sink school. She was the first to go to Uni (from her school or her family or whatever, you get the picture). She was used to being considered a genius in her small pond and so the University big pond, where everyone was equally bright, was a real shock to her.

Do you not have a gut feeling? We always did.

My friend was recently in a situation almost similar to yours.

Her DD passed the 11+ and they were allocated their first choice girls grammar school.

She also passed the Common Entrance exams at a girls Indie and were offered a 60% scholarschip.

After paying fees for primary education, she and her DH thought that they would jump at the grammar option but they have chosen the Indie school because their DD will be in a similar enviroment to what she is already used to. I suppose the scholarship helped!

Has your DD been offered places yet at these schools?

Very difficult. I went to a small primary school where only 2 girls (including myself) passed the 11+ and went to grammar school.

All through primary school I felt I was pretty clever and although I was always painfully shy and not at all confident, I had good confidence in my school work and my ability.

Going to the competitive (state) grammar was the worst thing for me. I was still not struggling, but there were lots of very confident, very clever girls and it eroded what little confidence I had. Being clever at primary was what I was good at, but at secondary, I was just average and being shy, I felt like a nobody.

Higher up the school I just did the bare minimum work and although I got ghood passes in all my GCSEs, I didn't get the A's I would have been capable of and dropped out half way through Alevels.

I always thought that I would have done so much better, and been much happier, at the local comp.

I also agree about the friends. I had no friends local to me at all.

It might also be worthwhile looking at the pastoral side of thingsd. My grammar school was of the opinion that if they didn't think you would get the results, then you were out. My friend wasn't allowed to take any GCSEs, even though she did very well in mocks, having not been at school most of the year. Her mum was an alcoholic and she was caring for siblings, but they would not risk her mucking up the exams so they trhew her out, her parents didn't enrol her in another school and she left school with no qualifications, despite being bright.

I know we all want our children to go through life with no worries, but teenage years can be very hard and I would be wary about a school that is all about results. Does that mean good results at all costs?

Have you looked at any state schools at all, or have you discounted them?

Oh and I would always be wary of letting a 10 year old choose, although that is probably because I chose my grammar school!

I am from a family of 4. 3 of us went to the local primary and comprehensive. My younger brother got a chorister scholarship and then academic scholarship to a renowned school. AS SOON as he had the choice [6th form] he left. He still resents not having been to the local schools like the rest of us. [However he was a boarder who came home at weekends not a day boy which I am sure makes a difference]. Success wise? Well he is doing fine but the rest of us did pretty ok too at our 'ordinary' schools. Don't dismiss local..

Oh thank you thank you Mumsnetters ( says wayward, once loyal Mumsnetter who has been ''too busy to Mumsnet'' of late....)

The great thing about it is that I always think everybody will be far too busy to bother with my not very important ( in the scheme of things) problems - but somebody always does find time to help, and all the responses DO help to sift my ideas which are currently at stalemate.

State is not really a preferred option as the only state that is significantly better than satisfactory is also 25 mins away and we are very far from sure to get in - and if there is no plan B (A?) then we are proverbially stuffed!

I teach part time and feel more and more that the state school where I work ( outstanding) is in danger of just being an exams factory - it is almost ALL about results - particularly grades that will go in league tables - so c/d borderline in maths and English get a lot of attention - Bs to As less so - and although I think my school is far form being the worst offender, it is too much about the academic and not enough about the whole child. I do not give my colleagues a hard time about this because given the numbers and demands on us that we have no control over we do an amazing job - and frankly CAN'T do more.

But I WANT more for dd and given that we can fairly easily afford the fees ( I am not a very glam/designer label sort of person so have nothing much else I want to spend dh's bonus on...)
So I have been round and round and round this question - and Senua you are absolutely right, if there IS a perfect school then it's not near here so I probably will forever wonder ...

dd is quite sporty and plays the clarinet well. She would be interested in drama and charity work and D of E and all that sort of thing - which to be fair all 3 will do given that they are all independent schools.
No Willow she hasn't got a place at any yet as this is for entry in 2012 ( I did say I was borderline O/C!!) I think she would get into any of them probably ( well, her teachers think so )- but whereas she would EASILY get into the first school - the others I just 'think' she would based on children I know who go there, but she probably would be 'set 2' as she is bright but not a child genius. I don't think she would struggle at any of them - but I think self confidence and self esteem are soooooo important and yes I know that I have a key role in that ( which I take very seriously, has anybody read 'The Optimistic Child? It's very good!) and what I witness at school is how easily it can be dented by school experiences.

Yes Senua you are right - I went on to a uni/course where everybody had got As and Bs at A level ( back when they were good grades....[sceptical] ) and DID suddenly feel 'gosh I'm not that special' - but by then the basic solid self confidence was already grounded and it was fine - I could just laugh about it! I knew I wasn't 'stupid' even tho I felt it compared to some.

Wordfactory your comments are very interesting as I am sort of drawn to our closest match to your choice ( oh and it's so near!!!!) - if it wasn't the 'least good' of the 3 on inspection reports I think I would have made the decision already... it is the weakest of the 3 I those terms BUT it has a new headmaster who I liked very much

Onceamai - your experience makes me feel very stressed - both the impact that a achool can have on 'making you feel stupid' when you clearly aren't - and on how a well researched and thought through decision can turn out to be wrong even so.... ARRRGGGHHHHHHH

OfftoNarnia - local doesn't really exist for us there are 6 girls in her class, 2 are going to a school I wouldn't consider ( satisfactory catchment school) 2 will get into the desirable ''local'' school 25 mins away on the sibling rule as younger children and 1 is going to the grammar school in question above.

Verybored - I think you're spot on with the pastoral side of things being important and it's where I start every interview ( I just LOVE the fact that in the independent sector you can just ask and get an hour with the Head - in the state sector you'll be lucky to get 5 minutes...) the best by far was the third choice on my list which is a minor public school ( Oakham) which REALLY seemed to have that sewn up - possibly in part because of the boarding there. My friend who works there also bears it out big time - downside is the school on Saturday mornings....
Oh maybe I should just lighten up and no stress about it till decision time next October... ( registration fees £800ish for one so not taking the exams for the sake of it!!!!)

Crikey I hadn't realised QUITE how long and self indulgently I'd rambled on....

I wouldn't stress about it if she hasn't got a place yet. Whack her in for the exams, see how she does. You may find you don't have the luxury of a decision, or you may find you get all three... in which case the stress you are going through now will seem but a butterfly's wing flutter in comparison. (Says she who is one year further down the line.)

I would ignore the financial and distance factors, and concentrate on the schools themselves, which one would suit your dd best, offers the subjects & extracurricular stuff that she needs. Which has the right "feel" that would suit her, does she need to be pushed or is she self motivating. Only you know your dd.

When we did this we knew that for us state wasn't an option and of the independant schools we looked at we narrowed it down to 3. The schools were pretty equal on exam results and I would have been happy sending her to any of those 3 but instinctively knew she would be happier at one of them. It was the one she liked best too, but we weren't sure she would get in. We thought she stood a better chance at another one (my old school!) but due to its size felt it wasn't ideal for her. Fortunately she got offered places at both, but we went with the one she loved. No regrets.

Sounds like you'd instinctively go for the 'whole child' ethos in a school and only one of the three near you fosters this. So you're torn because the schools you should love aren't right.

I'd definitely look for schools that build on what she already loves. And schools that gently push and build confidence in areas where she's weak. And listen to her reaction to the school.

If it doesn't work out, she can move. It's not irreversible.

Thanks all - and you're so right Willow I'm sure I will look back in wonder at why I was so stressed about it at this point. Mind you the £800 ish registration fees for one of the schools in order to take the entrance exams rather puts me off taking all 3 exams just for the sake of it!

Crazycarol I think in my heart I know I have to ignore the distance - I'm just fighting it as I feel hot and cold at the thought of fitting it in with working part time ( which I want to do). And I do need to remember what you say Menagerie that it's not a 'for life' decision, if she's not happy she can move. They all have significant intakes at 13+ so it would be easy to move then without it being a trauma at all.

I think what I really need to do now are 2 things - firstly talk to dd in more depth about it all - and take her to the 3 schools ( tho open days KEEP falling on days when she has some exciting sleepover opportunity - not good ) and secondly write down all the pros and cons in a big list - and all the main things I want and she wants - bit like we did when we were buying a house - (it costs about the same!!!!)

Bayleaf - when you say 25 mins away, by what mean of transport? 25 mins not a bad journey for secondary if it is walking or public transport - by secondary she ought ot be travelling to school by herself.. I'm afraid I always same the same thing on these threads - the journey is a really important consideration - would not go for a school that is only accessible in a realistic time by car.
We ruled out lots of schools on that basis so made the decison much very easier in that way.

£800? Are they taking the piss? DS has just sat exams at some of the top day schools in the country and registration was usually around the £100 mark. That is ridiculous.