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DS's Nursery Class report - would you be upset/angry about this? (long rant, sorry)

20 replies

Calista · 18/10/2005 14:15

DS1 (3yrs 7mths) started in the nursery class attached to his school at the beginning of last month. So far I've been really pleased with how he's settled in, he only really cried on the first day, never says he doesn't want to go, teacher always says he's been fine at the end of the day, etc.
His teacher arranged a brief 'Parent conference' with all the parents over the next week or two, and I went for mine yesterday....

She started off by telling me they were very concerned about his speech.
When he started there, I told her that he was under a speech and language therapist, and that he was on the waiting list for clinic appintments but wasn't likely to get anything until around his 4th birthday due to the extensive waiting list.
A year ago he was only saying about 3 words, and we are so proud of how he has progressed. He's now speaking in long sentences, his vocabulary is really good, and his pronunciation is getting clearer all the time. People can fully understand most of what he says, and all our friends have commented on how much clearer his speech is. We were told by the S & L therapist not to worry about his pronunciation as that is the last thing to come, and he has progressed at such a fast rate in the last 12 months that it will improve in it's own time.
So I was quite...gutted is the only word I can think of...when she said they were very concerned about his speech, they could hardly understand him a lot of the time, and she would be phoning the S & L team to try and hurry his clinic appointments up, as she felt he was very much in need of some help as soon as possible.
She then moved on to a couple of other 'targets', which were general ones such as numbers and colours to work on at home.
Last one was the other one which I'd been completely unprepared for.
They are apparently finding his behaviour in the classroom 'very disruptive', and they think he is "a cheeky little boy".
She went through a number of examples of this:
He goes and knocks over other children's bricks they have been building, if he notices another child is told off for doing something like sweeping some crayons off the table onto the floor, ds will go over and deliberately do the same thing "to get attention". When they ask him why he has done things like that, "he says he doesn't know why." Well of course he can't bloody explain why, for a start he's got communication difficulties and probably can't express what made him do it, and you've already said you hardly understand a word he's saying, so he probably tired of trying to make you understand what he's saying! He once banged his ride-on car into the fence very hard, again deliberately, and another time (this one really riled me) the children were told they must sit with their hands on their knees at the end of snack time, and not to move them, and ds slowly sneaked his hand on to the table and touched his cup with one finger "to deliberately wind us up". He's 3 and a half FFS!

At the end of relating all these incidents to me, she said "I mean, he must be like this at home, it can't just be here!"
My first thought was how dare she make that assumption, but reading past threads, this is apparently where the blame lies in teachers minds if a child has behavioural issues.
DS is occasionally challenging at home, but I would deem myself to be quite a strict parent, and although he tests me, he knows his boundaries and I always follow through with what I tell him is going to happen. (I never smack him, he goes and sits in the hall for 3 minutes if he carried on after I've asked him not to do something). I give him loads of praise when he's doing something well, or trying hard at something, spend plenty of time with him doing activities together, and we have a very close, loving relationship. I explained this to her, and she knows I work in childcare and am studying for a degree, so I am well aware of all the strategies. She just sat there and didn't comment, with a disbelieving expression.
She really came across as having taken a dislike to ds, just the look on her face when she was talking about him throughout. (A few weeks ago I noticed little things about how she spoke to the boys and the girls, and got the impression she is one of those teachers that has a general negative opinion of boys.)She didn't say one single positive thing about him. She didn't ask if there was anything happening in his life at the moment that might make him more disruptive, or how his behaviour was at the nursery he went to before.
Her only suggestion to deal with his behaviour was for me to give him a good telling off at home, about all the things I listed before such as the knocking down of childrens towers etc. I asked ds about it last night (in conversation as I think it's pointless and quite cruel to drag up things young children have done wrong hours later) ,he said "But I do it when they have gone away from the tower mummy so I can have bricks to build."

So did I leap to my child's defence and stand up for him like a mum's job is to do?

Nope, I was bloody useless. I didn't stand up for him properly, or voice my concerns about their lack of insight into DS's behaviour. I didn't say enough at all, probably because I was in a state of shock at the negative things she'd had to say about my little boy when I thought he was doing so well. I ended up in tears of anger in front of her, told her I was upset because it sounded as if she didn't like my child very much, and I hadn't had any idea that this was coming. She said we would have a meeting in a few weeks to see how everything is going.
I could have kicked myself afterwards when all this was buzzing round my head.

Thanks for sticking with it if you got to the end of that! It's made me feel better now it's all written down.

OP posts:
saadia · 18/10/2005 15:05

How horribly upsetting for you. The teacher sounds completely inadequate. I'm not sure what you can do. My ds1 is at the same age and stage as yours and I got the feeling when he started that the teacher didn't like him. That has now subsided and although the teacher seems nice enough I've noticed that there is one girl who she likes a lot and is always complimenting her on her hair/clothes etc. This teacher is middle-aged and I think her attitude might be due to her being old-fashioned. I don't know what she's like over the course of the session because I just see what happens at hometime.

Anyway, I'm digressing. Just wanted to say that I do sympathise. It's horrible to feel that our most precious children are not even being given a fair chance by their carers. I hope someone will come along with better advice.

nzshar · 18/10/2005 15:15

Calista im very for you at this teacher. the fact he has communication problems should allow for at least a bit of understanding. As you said he is 3 and a half FFS. Teachers like this should be round up and shot....ok maybe not shot but they at least need to be trained properly or is this the norm....i only have a 15month old ds so have all this to come. This is no way for a young child to be starting his schooling life. Perhaps a meeting with the teacher and the head of the school. Grrrrr at her

frogs · 18/10/2005 15:16

Calista, poor you.

Don't know about the behavioural things, but it sounds as if they're not handling him very well. I think you could legitimately start off your follow-up appointment by asking whether they have worked out any better strategies for helping him to fit in. It's not as if his behaviour is particularly extreme -- he's hardly racing round, attacking other children and calling the teacher a fking cnt, is he (which has happened in my ds's nursery class, for example).

Second point to be made is that most teachers know diddly squat about speech and language. Speech is one of those things, like reading, that every body thinks they know about on the basis of being able to read/speak themselves. Unless she has specialist qualifications in child language acquisition, her opinion isn't going to be worth anything, particularly not if an SLT whom you trust has told you different. Pronunciation is often the last thing to come good, so don't get stressed about it unless someone reliable has said it's a problem. It's obviously irritating for teachers if they can't understand a child, but possibly a sign to them that they need to work harder at it!

Hope you feel better soon.

YeahBut · 18/10/2005 15:26

My daughter has language problems and her behaviour can be challenging too. The thing we find useful when dealing with negative reports from school is to put the ball back into their court - ask them what plans they have to deal with his issues as they appear in the classroom. It's all very well for them to say he does x,y and z in the class, but you're not there and you can't do anything about it after the fact.

Arrange another meeting when you have calmed down and say that you would like to discuss an educational action plan with them to deal with the behaviours they find most disruptive in the class. They need to identify things they would like to modify and really plan for how they are going to work on them - praising good behaviour, making sure that he always understands what is expected of him (quite often they don't do this adequately and then blame the child for doing something "wrong"), regular liaison with you so you can back things up at home. This is a far more productive use of everyone's time. I get really fed up when I hear of teachers being very negative about a child but not discussing a way forward.

bakabat · 18/10/2005 15:35

He has a year to go? Anywhere else he can go? They sound useless if your peg isn't completely round (ds1 autistic- taken out of one nursery and placed elsewhere- the difference-wow- mainstream nurseries either get it or don't. Don't waste time trying to educate those who don't unless you have no other choice.
She should be telling you to tell him off for stuff he has done.

His speech sounds very like my ds2's (development wise too) and his nursery (the one we moved ds1 to) have always been great and positive (and he's no longer on the SALT list as his few bits of prnounciation problems k and g- should sort themselves out- he's the same age as your ds too).

bakabat · 18/10/2005 15:35

sorry- for stuff he has done at nursery- they should deal with it there- not carry it home when you didn't even see it.

homemama · 18/10/2005 16:39

Hi Calista, I'm sorry that your first experience of parent/teacher consultations has been such a negative one. Her comments and actions do sound unreasonable. Even if his behaviour is causing concern there are much more sensitive and constructive ways to discuss it.

Everything you've mentioned sounds like typical 3yr old behaviour. The cup thing in particular sounds ridiculous! Even when they're 11 and about to sit SATs and you tell them to fold their arms and wait, they can't help but fiddle with the paper and their pencil.
Is this the first time she's taught nursery?

The other thing that concerns me is that she didn't say one positive thing about him.
EVEN the most difficult child in a class (not suggesting this is your DS) has positive qualities that the teacher can discuss with the parents. During a 10min consul. the first 8mins should be telling mum and dad all the wonderful things that their child has achieved. Only then should you mention problems/concerns or targets.

Feel so for you that you didn't get this esp as it was your first one.

You know how much progress he's made. Don't forget that. Perhaps as Bakabat says, you should look for an alternative nursery.

Majorca · 18/10/2005 17:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mizmiz · 18/10/2005 18:07

Calista,the tone and examples cited by this woman worry me (partic. the touching the cup episode. As you quite rightly say,he's three and a half ffs.)

Sounds really weird and controlling and completely out of synch with the needs of small children.

I also second what frogs says about communication issues. No,most teachers know very little about this area (not their fault-they're not trained in pathology of language although some think they are......) I am a SALT btw.

Listen to the salt re this not her. Anyway,from his explanation of why he knocked over the bricks,it sounds pretty damned good to me!

Not surprised you cried. Horrid old witch. Collect your thoughts,maybe discuss it with salt,compose a written reply and maybe consider another placement??

Writing it down was a good idea. You'll feel better tomorrow I promise.

aloha · 18/10/2005 18:10

Sounds a really negative experience and I would feel upset and angry too. It's not like he's dong anything bad and the hands on knees thing sounds nasty to me.
BTW I was told my ds was misbehaving recently and they gave me the following example. Ds started throwing puzzles down from the shelf. The nursery manager would tell ds (sternly) that he would have to put it together again and then put it back. So she helped him and back it went...so he pulled down another...same thing happened. She said, "Ds, why do you keep doing that' to which ds replied 'because I like doing puzzles'! I really had to struggle not to laugh!

Katemum · 18/10/2005 18:36

Your poor child. If you can collect your thoughts together, maybe down on paper I think you would do well to arrange another meeting with her. You need to know that this nursery is meeting your child's needs and it definately doesn't sound like it from what you said.

bosscat · 18/10/2005 18:46

unbelievable. He doesn't sounds like he's doing anything abnormal to me at all. Typical 3 year old boy. My ds1 who is 3 and a half is always coming home saying "Margaret told me off today" when quizzed as to why he tells me "because she told us all to go in the apples room and I stayed in the oranges because the trains were there". I'm more than happy for them to discipline him if he doesn't do as he's told but the point is they have never ever told me its a problem. Furthermore my son had to wear a patch on his eye for 3 months and this was really distressing to me as I thought god how are the nursery going to cope with that? they were fantastic, made a fuss of him, told all the children what was going on, it was never ever a problem for them. There are better nurseries out there and you really need to have staff you trust. You should meet her again, tell her what you feel and if you aren't satisfied find another one.

ScummyMummy · 18/10/2005 19:18

Awful. I'm so sorry you've had to deal with this, Callista. This woman sounds really horrible and I'm not surprised you are upset. Are there any other staff in the nursery? Could he change classes if this teacher continues to be so negative?

liandme · 18/10/2005 19:20

i started work at our pre-school in september and we have just done our half termly reports,when writing these we dont add anything negative and if we have a negative comment to make we usually start with we would like to improve ...........
we are always in contact with parents and if a problem arises we will usually take them to one side and comment on it but to be honest we wouldnt even bother to mention behaviour like that, and as for the speech problems we would just work around it and include activites that would encourage speech.

cori · 18/10/2005 19:39

Calista, I am glad I am not the only one going through this at the moment.
I would just like to say I have come home from my first ever parents meeting today in tears. I cant believe how they view my son. It seems that they didnt have a positive word to say about him, I am so angry. His childminder and previous preschool were always full of praise.

stripeybumpsmum · 18/10/2005 20:19

V sorry for yr experience Calista. Competence of teacher? If she thinks 3 years olds are out to wind her up, she really has a persecution complex! Her ability to understand and adapt to ds is problem - misconception about the basic principles of dealing with children. Would 2nd advice re going back to school with your agenda and action plan. Would also add you should get a copy of school's OFSTED report (www.ofsted.gov.uk/reports/) and highlight areas of concern in report that support your complaints about ds treatment.Hacks me off. No worries that you were unprepared today - but do take action promptly. DB was treated like this aged 4. Mum thought 'school must know best' so followed advice. When same teacher taught me, Mum stood ground and demanded I was moved (and flourished under excellent teacher). Subsequent education specialists for DB were appalled by teacher but worked hard to reverse damage. Stick with SaLT view not hers. GL

Calista · 18/10/2005 20:47

Thanks everyone for your support and suggestions,
it really helps to know I'm not alone in my feelings about her unrealistic expectations of DS and that I'm not over-reacting.

I'm picking him up tomorrow afternoon, and will be asking her for another meeting in the week after half term in which my DH is also present.

I could really do with some advice from MN'ers that have some experience of a similar situation, to get my head together on what I need to get across to her. I'm feeling really apprehensive about keeping it together at this next meeting, and not ending up in tears again, which is so unproductive (and ), and if I have a clear list of points I will be making, I'll feel a lot more in control of the situation.

Just looked again at the sheet she gave me at the end of the meeting, 'Targets for nursery that you can help me with at home'. For the behavioural issue she has put;

"To understand the consequences of inappropriate behaviour and to have respect for other people's property."

That just sounds so harsh, and totally unsuitable targets to set for a 3 year old, it really upsets me. What other unattainable expectations has she got regarding a 3 year old's behaviour? If you keep setting children tasks that they're bound to fail, their self esteem will be affected.
One of the comments she made was that the school will expect certain levels of discipline when DS goes into reception and beyond, and he can't carry on behaving in this manner then. There is only one nursery class in the school, and she is the only nursery teacher, along with her teaching assistant.

With regards to changing his nursery, of course if the second meeting goes similarly to this first one, I will be writing to the Head and finding DS another nursery class.
I'm so hoping it doesn't get to that though, and this has been another worry that's been churning my stomach all day. The nursery class he's at is the school nursery class, and I have already submitted the LEA form with that as my first choice. So if I was to withdraw him from the nursery, I wouldn't want him to go to the school, and probably wouldn't get him in there anyway in that situation, as they are a Catholic school and handle their own admissions. The reason I wanted him to go to that school is because the children there have a reputation for being very well behaved (!), I'm not particularly bothered about the religious aspect as it's DH that's Catholic.
There is a distinct lack of decent schools in the area, and I don't drive so I am limited anyway. I've no idea where I'd send him if the worst came to the worst.

OP posts:
BudaBabe · 18/10/2005 21:00

Do you know any of the other Mums? What are their experiences of her as a teacher.

My DS has just done a year of Nursery with a teacher who some liked and some hated. I got on OK with her and she liked my DS thankfully. Not everyone was so lucky. A few Mums who were unhappy with the situation got together and had a meeting with the head (without nursery teacher) and put their feelings to him. As this was towards the end of the year nothing was changed straightaway but the whole nursery has now been restructured.

It does sound like the teacher is a bit odd - her expectations of 3yr olds are way off the mark.

rachiebb · 18/10/2005 21:02

So sorry to hear what you and your son have been going through. IMHO I think that some teachers have difficulty with what they see as 'fidgety boys' and secretly prefer girls (who - huge generalisation - tend to be quieter in the classroom. Your son sounds perfectly normal to me - is there a classroom assistant or another teacher in the nursery class that you can discuss this with to get a more balanced view?

marthamoo · 18/10/2005 21:08

Calista, I'm guessing you'll be fine at the next meeting. I had a very similar experience when ds1 started at pre-school. I thought he was doing fine but 7 weeks in his teacher grabbed me and told me she was very concerned about him , he didn't speak at all, didn't interact, didn't eat - she thought he was autistic. I was completely shocked and my reaction was very much like yours - I was completely on the defensive because I was caught on the back foot, said nothing sensible, was trying not to cry and just needed to get out of there.
When I went back to meet with here again I had thought over what she had said, what I wanted to say, and I had actually written a list of points and strategies I wanted to talk about (I strongly advise you do this too). And I was fine (I imagine at the first meeting my ds's teacher was thinking no wonder the child doesn't speak, his mother just stands there opening and shutting her mouth like a goldfish )

She sounds awful, btw - can't believe she had nothing positive to say about your son, that's appalling. I agree with everyone else: you know how much progress he has made with his speech, his SALT is pleased - and it seems his teacher doesn't know him at all. The rest of his 'dreadful' behaviour doesn't sound like anything particularly unusual or challenging from a 3 year old either. I hope you can make some progress here and that you don't have to move nurseries. Good luck.

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