Oxbridge application, degree subject choice

[LondonMother]

My son is in year 12 and is currently trying to decide what degree subject to apply for and where to apply. He has 11 A grade GCSEs and is doing AS German, Italian, History and Maths with Statistics and currently plans to go on with all four to A2. Hard to say until he gets some results but he looks very likely to get A or A in all of them. He should also have Philosophy and Critical Thinking AS levels. Philosophy likely to be an A but he's waiting for his second module result. I know CT isn't usually counted by universities but am I right in thinking it might be a good preparation for aptitude tests?

Anyway, he is currently thinking about two separate things and I would be really grateful for any advice anyone has!

1. Where to apply - he's seriously considering going for either Oxford or Cambridge, and most of his other choices will probably be very competitive too. I assume it would be wise to have at least one choice with a lower offer?

1. What to study - his thoughts at the moment are either History or History and a language or Modern Languages (History and Italian possibly the most favoured option). Would I be right in thinking that he will face less competition for a languages degree, and that the conditional offer is likely to be lower (although not at Oxford or Cambridge)?

Thanks for all help!

It's been a few years since I applied to university (I read History at Oxford), but it was always sensible when applying to have a 'back up' degree course with lower grades needed to get in.

In terms of seeing what the most competitive courses are, at Oxford (and I assume at Cambridge too), the prospectus and website gave statistics on the number of applicants per course, per college, and the percentage that were successful. For example, it's probably a lot more competitive in terms of numbers of applicants to read history at Magdalen or Christ Church, than it is to read Modern Languages at Lady Margaret Hall. So, it might be worth your son getting an idea of the most popular colleges and courses at Oxbridge before he decides which college and which course to apply for.

Thanks, Rockin! I see a few months of open days, intensive prospectus reading and (I hope) a lot of background reading for him.

I think Languages are very popular so can't see it being any less competition. Personally, I prefer Oxford, more rich colleges to give you excellent accommodation for longer, you can walk along the river properly whereas in Cambridge it's a pain walking between the different colleges, and Oxford is a bigger town than Cambridge and closer to London.
Oxford exam is not hard if you are prepared to say what you actually think rather than what you have been taught to say. Suppose CT AS could help, family conversations and dinner parties with diverse opinions perhaps more so.

It sounds like your son has a good chance of getting into Oxford or Cambridge, so he should go for it! However, if he wants to read History plus a language, he will have to go to Oxford, as combinations of subjects are not possible under the Cambridge Tripos system (unless he reads Asian and Middle Eastern Studies, which combines several subjects, but concentrated on one culture).

You are right too that his "insurance" place should be at a university that is slightly less selective. At least one of his insurance places should be for a course where the offer is lower than 3 As in case he drops grades.

I'm not sure that it is the case that language degrees are uncompetitive.

Given his gifts for languages, he should also consider whether he might do his degree in Europe, where fees will be MUCH lower.

"more rich colleges to give you excellent accommodation for longer, you can walk along the river properly whereas in Cambridge it's a pain walking between the different colleges"

I love Oxford, but I'm mystified by these statements - none of them are true of Cambridge! The richest college of all is Trinity, Cambridge, almost all Cambridge colleges guarantee you accommodation for the duration of your time there (in fact I don't know of any that don't), and there are far more obvious green spaces in Cambridge than Oxford. The Backs are glorious. And I have no idea what you mean by "it's a pain walking between the different colleges".

I speak as someone who has lived and worked in both places.

In Cambridge lots of river access is split between different colleges so you can't just walk along the rive bank!

I had the impression Oxford spent more money on its undergrads than Cambridge. My brother got fab accommodation and a book grant and cheap jam doughnuts every day Hogwarts-style at Christ Church, and his room cleaned too. My friends at Cambridge didn't seem to have quite as much thrown at them on a daily basis.

I think it just depends on the college - there are rich and poor colleges at both Oxford and Cambridge. My DH, who was a Senior Tutor at Cambridge, took great pleasure in handing out grants of £8.5K each to the two students who wanted to do Sanskrit summer schools one year...

You can walk all the way to Ely along the Cam if you want to; it's only the congested bit around John's where there is no river path.

I am sure the OP's DS will be taking more into account than my rather flippant post!

Find out which colleges offer accommodation for all three years and what the cost is. I was at Cambridge and my impression was that all colleges did offer accommodation throughout undergrad days, but maybe things have changed.

It can be expensive renting in both Oxford and Cambridge.

Am sure lots will have changed since my day but I read French and History at Oxford (and it is a great degree) but was very naive when applying (first in family to go to university etc etc) so you mnay already know the below - feel free to ignore!

Each college has a different attitude to joint honours degrees - some are very pro, some are very anti (I discovered, and this largely seemed to be simply a reflection of the individual tutors' attitudes).

I would say it is just worth asking direct questions at the open days, and having a look at how many people are reading the subject at his chosen colleges, to make sure he is trying for ones that are positive about his chosen combination.

In terms of difficulty of getting in, we were always told it was harder to get in for joint honours but this may have been a myth or maight have changed (certainly wouldn't say I or many of my contemporaries were geniuses!)

Has he considered Linguistics?

DD is doing this at Cambridge and finding it fascinating. The competition for places seemed intense to her when she applied (for Languages degrees - she switched to Linguistics this year) and her offers were AAA, AAB, ABB, BBB & EE!

Christ Church is it. There is nowhere else worth considering.

Although it's quite a long walk home from Park End when you're w**nkered and the kebab van was always slightly inferior to St John's.

Thanks for all advice! Especially about the kebab van - nothing like getting down to essentials.

I could mention linguistics, which his dad spent a lot of time studying from a Classics perspective. Not my thing at all but I have the impression that being good at Maths as well as languages would be useful for someone studying linguistics.

Open Days...

Trinity Cambridge positively hurls money at its students - I was a happy beneficiary.

I think Oxford may have caught up now but back in my day (90s) the great attraction of Cambridge was that all colleges accommodated you for your whole degree. This certainly was not true at Oxford.

NB - at Cambridge, you don't apply to do linguistics, it only exists as a Part II. So he would have to apply for either History or Languages, and then switch to Linguistics.

Not all Cambridge colleges can accommodate you for all three years, but many will put you in college-run housing, which is much cheaper than the market rate.

HTH.

Maths plus languages definitely lends itself to enjoying linguistics. I did MML at Cambridge ages ago when Linguistics wasn't a full Tripos - the only option was to take as many linguistic papers as you could for Part II. Once you got away from the General Linguistics paper into the more 'specialised' ones almost all of us had a 'sciency' third A-Level.

I'd agree that it's a huge generalisation to say that Cambridge doesn't offer accommodation/money to the extent Oxford does. Most colleges offer accommodation for at least 3 years I believe. Some are massively well off but even the less well off ones will still have grants etc available for Travel, summer study etc.

Linguistics at Cambridge is now a full Tripos - the first candidates started this October (although until this year it was only available from 2nd Year).

(DD did wonder if she would have to start the whole tripos from Yr1 as this was new.)

She will be in College accommodation again next year, so for the whole course - as are all of her friends.

Ahhh... the kebab kiosk outside st john's oxford. best falafels in the SE i swear. beats Cambridge's Van of Life into a cocked hat!

Having studied at one and now live in the other, where dh went, I would rather study at Cambridge.
Reasons: the town is dominated by the uni which if you are a student is wonderful, like a massive campus. My college was live in for all three years, and some other colleges you have to live out for the middle year but in college owned accommodation.

DH says that a lot if students went to london or home for weekends, not so at Cambridge so there was always loads on at the weekend. Fun!

Also the tripod system is so flexible. So he could start languages and then switch to linguistics formula final year or even social and politics scoence or theology or anything really

Good luck!

Sorry typos on phone

If = of
Formula= for his

My sister went to Cambridge to read French and Italian, and switched after two years to History of Art which she read for a further two years.

With his A-levels, he might be well suited to PPE (politics philosophy and economics) at Oxford - probably lots of competition though, as it's what future prime ministers usually read.

Cambridge degrees can generally be more flexible because of the part I/part II system - a large number of my friends doing arts subjects did parts I & II in different subjects. I also switched to a little known part II option (I think I was the first ever to do it) which suited my interests better, while staying in the same faculty.

I think visits and lots of research are essential. I did huge amounts of reading of official prospectuses and unofficial ones (do they still do the alternative prospectus at Cambridge?) plus faculty and college visits, and because I was interested in a fairly obscure subject I got the faculty to put me in touch with a couple of people already doing it.

I chose a big college partly because smaller ones might not have been able to offer supervision in my subject, but also because of accommodation and the prospect of book and travel grants. There are lots of things to consider when you're deciding which one to apply to.

PPE is so competitive though - I think that unless you are completely gone on PPE (and it doesn't sound as if the OP's DC is) then it is a big risk. Modern Languages are much, much easier to get a good university place with.

bonsoir has good advice

btw bonsoir is your sister rp?

you couldn't do history with languages in my day at cambrdige. if he wanted to do german and italian for part I, he could then pick up history or other papers from other (permitted) faculties in part II.