Learning Difficulties and forced to take GCSE French - Advice needded!

[INAD33]

Hi,

Does anyone know if there is anything you can do to opt out of French GCSE. My daughter has ASD, Dyselxia and a Language Disorder. I have been told unless I get a statement for her then she will have no choice but to take French as an option. Altough I am indeed going to try for a statement I am also aware that it is near impoosible to get one these days. Does anyone know who I can get further information from to fight this. It angers me so much because is like asking a deaf child to listen when you ask my daughter to learn a language with a language disorder! Feels like the system is setting my daughter up to fail and more importantly to loose confidence. Any advice will be appreciated

If she has asd, dyslexia and a language disorder then she should be able to get a statement.

Has she tried french? My son has such severe asd he is in a special school and he does bits of French.
He can also read and write even though he can barely speak.

Could you swap to a school where they don't have to do a language at GCSE. It isn't 'compulsory' although some schools have made it so (and are entitled to). Where I teach it is not compulsory and I much prefer it that way - I would far rather teach willing volunteers than conscripts!

I can't advise on statements or opt-outs but in my year they had a separate class for students who had real difficulties with languages and those children sat a certificate programme here instead of the GCSE. Maybe you could ask the school to look into that to give her an attainable languages goal?

Thanks everyone. My daughter knows the entire french vocabulary for Ballet, like her teachers, its rather amazing to hear her. However she can not understand the language unless it relates to her body movement, thats the ASD. She only learns by doing and our schools are set up to learn like the majority not the minority. She has amazing talnts but big weaknesses as well which means she is probably borderline for a statment. She is 14 and only go diagnosed with her conditions last year, so even if we did get a statement it would be about a year away before its in place.

The school have been really good and tried to help in everyway but are very sure it is compulsory for her to take a language under the new government guidelines. Tinuviel, if your right about schools being given the option to not make their students take a language, where could I find that information. I would be more than happy to shove the proof under their noses!

There must be away round this!!!!!

It is your school that is setting this policy, not the govt.

It is not true that she needs a statement, the school is required to make reasonable accommodation for all kids on the SEN register. And this would seem like a very reasonable adjustment.

Just keep fighting it. Make a meeting with the SENCO and quote law at them till they give up

Quotes from the SEN COP:

Fundamental Principles

1:5 The detailed guidance in this Code is informed by these general principles and should be read with them clearly in mind:

• a child with special educational needs should have their needs met

Critical Success Factors
1:6

• special education professionals take into account the views of individual parents in respect of their child?s particular needs

6:4 Each school is required to plan a curriculum that includes provision for those National
Curriculum subjects that are statutory at key stages 3 and 4. Teachers should deliver the
National Curriculum programmes of study in ways that meet the particular learning
requirements of their pupils.

Some variations in the requirements at key stage 4 are
permitted through the use of the regulations under Section 363 of the Education Act 1996
which permit disapplications of National Curriculum subjects for specific purposes.

The special school I work at teach the children languages. Although French is optional at keystage 4. They do entry level certificate and many of the children enjoy it.

They study a taste of French, German, BSL and spanish lower down the school. It gives the children a taste without the languages getting too hard.

I think children with special needs do benefit from languge teaching provided they have a good teacher.

My ds has autism and only learnt to speak at seven but he picked up French effortlessly which was so strange as he had struggled with English and still does tbh.I would remind the school of the need to make reasonable adjustments to accommodate dd's needs due to her disability.Maybe the lessons where she would have French could be used to address her difficulties.

Thanks everyone for your continued advice it really does help! ASDx2 and reallytierd i agree that learning a new language could be achieved and can be fun but in my daughters comp its not going to happen. I taught my daughter to count to 50 in french by the age of 9 but at school she cant even say hello in french. She sat a test last week for french listening test and got top marks, how?, because she worked out the sequence for each answer from other pupils tests. She also managed to get top marks in her oral french test, how?, because she memorised the first 2 letters of every word they were asked to learn. Great u might think, well yes in one way but she has no idea what the words mean at all!

IndigoBell, you are a star, think this info might just help me have a case to argue! Wish i didnt have to rock the boat but i feel i have no option but to try. I wish the school had just been honest with me instead of blaming the gov! I am aware of other parents who are just as worried about their children taking french and some of their children struggle more than mine! These parents also believe what the school have said, think i might cause a war if i tell them they have all been fed a pack of lies!!!!!

I am sooooo stressed trying to help my daughter it seems like i have been fighting for her for years! On top of all this she is meant to choose her options subjects, well this is just impossible. Well thats another thread altogether.

Thanks again guys u are all great!!!!!!!!!!

It sounds like your school are chasing English Bac figures! Languages are not compulsory at Key Stage 4, so if she is in year 9 she will have to continue for the rest of this year but should not have to do a language next year. However, the chances are that if the school have made it compulsory, there will be nothing else on for her to do at that time (because everyone in her year will be doing a language!)

Even when a language was compulsory, they brought in a scheme where you could 'disapply' a pupil. I found this on the QCA website:

curriculum.qcda.gov.uk/key-stages-3-and-4/general-teaching-requirements/subject-requirements/index.aspx

My dyslexic son's school let him not take a language at GCSE. He decided to take a different subject where he thought he had a chance of a half-decent grade. He would have had to work three times as hard (in his estimation) to achieve a C in Spainish as to achieve an A* in Maths.

INAD You have written the reason in your last post as to why the school are pressing your dd to take French. If she has strategies to pass the exams then whether she understands it or not won't matter, she will get the results for the school. You will have your work cut out trying to explain how she can come top in a test but doesn't understand what she is submitting on paper especially when you have a school not understanding ASD.Ds attends an autism unit and so the rules are very bent and sometimes broken to accommodate his needs it sounds like dd isn't so fortunate.

The other way of course is for her to attend the lessons and then not do the exam.

Yes, it is not compulsory to study a MFL at KS4, but she won't get the new "English Bac" without it, which means that schools will be pushing for her (and all pupils) to take it.

If I were you, I would speak with her French teacher about her potential grade. If she could get a grade C or above, it really would be in her best interests to take it, even if she might prefer or do better at another subject.
It sounds as if she has discovered very useful methods for learning a language. Please remember that none of her year 9 peers will understand a great deal of the language either. They will all feel out of their depth, and the level of understanding of language at this stage can seem very low to parents, who have memories of speaking languages at school.

If the teacher thinks she won't do well at GCSE, point out to the HOD/HT that it isn't compulsory at all, and take the advice given above regarding SENCO etc.

Oh my, thanks everyone!

My daughter is in lowest set and got top marks in her class which to be honest doesn't mean that much. My daughters head of year is actually her french teacher and has already told me, off the record, that the kids in my daughters class dont have the ability to pass GCSE French but he just tries to make the lessons fun for them. Cant believe the same person told me that she now has to do french because of the new gov guidelines. Dont think this teacher was expecting me too check the info he gave me, i must come across as very dumb!

For fear of sounding dumber what is the 'english bac'? How does this effect a pupil like my daughter?

I have had no reply from my daughters head of year after saying i would consider taking this matter to the secretary of state for education to fight against the new gov guidelines. I wrote this before being advised correctly by you mumsnet crowd! Seems he dare not admit the truth!

So dont want a fight with the school and so dont know best way of handling this matter. My daughter will never get a grade c in french which i feels makes the 2 year course a total waste of time.

Well at least i have half term before having to make a decision. Cant even help my daughter choose her options and that has to be done for when she goes back. Decisions are so not my strongest point!

Thanks to you all, not just for your advise but for listening, it does help me soooooo much!

The English bac is something that the current government suddenly dreamed up to be a benchmark indication of a good education. You don't have to try for it, but the idea is that it is a good thing to have GCSEs in English, Maths, 2 x Sciences (double award does count), a modern or ancient foreign language and a humanity: history or geography. (As well as the other subjects studied at GCSE, however these are the only ones that count for the bac).

It isn't compulsory to try for, and schools are generally quite confused about the system, and feeling under immense pressure to try to get as many pupils through the system as possible. However, the GCSE grades for the bac need to be at level A - C, so obviously only A-C level candidates (or their schools) are going to benefit from it.

At the moment it isn't seen as a terribly importnat benchmark for the pupils themselves, but more for the schools. However, this may change in the future, and employers or F/HE establishments may look to ensure that candidates do have the bac for certain jobs/courses.

HTH.

LoopyLoopsHulaHoops that is very helpful thank you. I understand this now. The government is trying to find ways of encouraging schools to produce better results. Bit like SATS, its there for the schools not the poor kids that make themselves sick trying to achieve what the schools wants!

Perhaps I'm being a little negative but it seems that the gov is trying to pigeon whole the next generation into something that has little benefit to certain individuals. Setting up a scheme like this ensures those that are creative rather than academic have less chance of reasonable employment as employers will be looking for a specific general result. Just because a child may not cope with academic study does'nt mean they cant be better at a job than an academic!!!!

Well I'm now so confused why me daughters school would encourage kids to take french when its unachievable. Actually I do get it. If they put all kids through they just might get a pass rate from a few pupils who struggle so they gain status for their school. However if they just let kids opt out then they have no chance of achieving bac!

Just spoke to friend who is a teacher and she said the because my daughter is down to do BTEC science then she could not get bac anyway. Then why make her do French. What on earth would they gain????? Can you work it out, because I am soooooooooo confused!

Also is it right that Geography and History are not compulsory as well?

Boy am I gaining a lot of information and am beginning to feel much better armed to continue to battle. Just hope I don't make matters worse by forcing the issue!

Does a parent have the right to withdraw their children from subjects they cannot achieve in? I presume the answer is no, but I suppose it doesn't hurt to ask.

Normally you wouldn't have the right to withdraw your child - but because your child has SN - normal rules don't apply.

For example, I was able to withdraw my child from swimming, which is compulsory and part of the NC (in Y5) - just because he would find it too stressful.

If learning French is going to cause her considerable stress (due to her SN), then it is reasonable for her to be withdrawn and the school should accommodate that.