How good does your German need to be to study in Germany?

[roisin]

ds1 is currently flying in German, though he's only yr9. But as a Science nut, he may not have the space to take it further than AS Level at sixth form. (Will do sciences + Maths probably.)

He has a German penpal and will hopefully do some exchanges out there over the next few years.

Do you think studying at a German university would be an option for him to consider?

And how long are German first degrees these days? (Students I used to know in Germany seemed to study FOR EVER! LOL)

Maybe he could study in English at a German university? AS wouldn't be high enough to study in the language. However moving to Germany to study is a great idea because fees are so very cheap.

Students still seem to study forever, they can choose when to do their final exams, but their degrees are bachelors and masters together. I think the system has recently changed though.

the degrees have changed a lot in the past few years, most universities now offer the bachelor and master with much quicker and strickter timelines.

wrt speaking german, it is not impossible to study without fluent german but I would recommend an immersion course first, maybe met up with his pen pal over the holidays.

admissions for students wanting to stay more than a semester - also posted that on scary's thread.

I think there's still a lot more flexibility about redoing years, changing courses etc but a motivated student should get through in 3 or 4 years, depending what degree they're heading for.

structure from Mainz

If he's studying sciences, it should be a lot easier than arts subjects - let's just say half an hour of my PhD viva was in German which wasn't too hard with German A-level, because so many of the words are so similar.
And if you're mainly writing equations, maths etc and fact-based essays your prose doesn't have to be so great.

The research institutes I collaborated with in Germany all had English as their working language and many of the undergrad profs spoke English too.

Could he do two sciences, Maths and German at A-level? (I did two sciences, German and Computer Studies, which got me into Cambridge but the lack of Maths/Physics was an issue - on the other hand I'd never have done well in them to get in...)

I reckon a couple fortnight-long German homestays would stand him in good enough stead, if he actually wants to study there.

I don't think German universities accept A levels for entry and I'm not even sure about IB either. All the German children I have know who studied in the UK have had to go back to Germany to take their school leaving qualificaton in order to get a place at university - it's been a problem for them.

Argh at your last message snorkie! That doesn't surprise me though. How frustrating.

It's not something he's by any means dead set on, but I just thought it might be an interesting proposition, as it's so rare to have people scientists with English as their first language, who can function in any other language to any level of competency. (Though it works superbly the other way around.)

Maybe a semester in Germany would be the way to go... Hmm...

Most universities will accept IB as abitur equivalent without a fuss if the group 1 or 2 subject is German.

Apparently foreign school leaving exams can be converted by the Zeugnisanerkennungsstelle but you'd need a specific combination of subjects and 4 A-levels may not be enough.

Is there any way your DS could do IB? And instead of a group 6 (arts) subject, take a second science?

A lot of universities offer a year abroad under the eramus programme. So it would be 2 years in england and an extra year at a european university and then back to the uk for the final year. You can either apply for a year abroad course or transfer onto it at the end of the first year if your first year grades are high enough. I think you need an A level in the relevant language of the european country you are visiting.

DD1 has transferred onto a year abroad course after completing her first year (she needed to have the equivalent of a high 2:1 to be eligible and she needs to achieve that again this year) she has chosen to go to America rather than europe though so no language benefit there!

No-one is doing IB round here at the moment. They might be by then, of course, but not at the moment.

The erasmus programme does sound like a definite possibility though webwiz.

He hasn't chosen GCSE options yet! But we will have to look closely at A Level choices to see if it's possible to do enough Maths/Science and squeeze a language in as well.

I'm thinking about this quite seriously for dd1, roisin, especially if she doesn't get in to Oxbridge, which would be her first choice. The ability to have a fluent second language would be a brilliant addition to any kind of a degree, but esp a science/maths one.

I think he'd need to have reasonable fluency, not necessarily by doing A-level. What is hard is to build up the conversational confidence and stamina that he'd need in order to participate fully, socially and academically. The UK-German connection thing would probably be a good place to start.

PM me if you want to discuss more.

I'm not sure IB is the best route for scientists in any case. While a broader range of subjects is welcomed for arts candidates I think science course admissions people tend to prefer as much maths and science as possible rather than a broader range (but languages are always welcome if the can e squeezed in).

Of course German universities accept the British A-levels for entry. DS would only need to pass the German language test for university entrance which in my times used to be called DSH (stands for something like German for University admission), all international students have to pass this.

Especially in the science and engineering degrees there are many international students.

I think it will benefit him to continue German till A-levels, I think the DSH would be a similar level to getting an A or B in the German A-level. He would probably need maths, science and German A-level.

If he doesn't take German A-levels, it will just take him longer to study for the language entrance exam, so why not take the courses for free at his current school and save on the time needed for DSH entrance?

There are several ways intl students take the DSH:

• in the UK, he could take courses at the Goethe Institute (I guess London and several larger UK cities will have one) and pass the DSH in the UK, that way he could start uni straight after his A-levels
• the universities tend to offer intensive courses in the summer, so intl students come, do an intensive course in August, pass and then start the degree in September. This requires a very good level of German already
• other intl students with weak German skills tend to move to their uni town of choice and spend the first semester (Oct - Mar) taking German language courses and then pass the exam and enter the degree courses in the summer semester (April - July)

It's all quite cheap and especially in sciences and engineering the level of teaching is excellent at many universities with much less competetive entry than UK so I think it is a very good idea. There are fantastic small uni towns in the South with high number of international students, great weather and much lower living expenses (not to mention tuition fees) than UK.

If you choose your options well then IB can be the equivalent of 2 sciences plus maths at A-level plus English, a language and a humanity type subject (IIRC can be economics, history, geography, psychology, philosophy, IT in a global society and anthropology, possibly also business plus a pilot SL course in something to do with the environment and societies) at AS.

But you need a school which allows a group 6 substitution and is happy for you to load up on science at HL.

IMO if you want to study abroad, even for sciences, IB allows more flexibility than A-levels however you have to be clear on subject requirements.

Near fluent german will be needed to do the whole degree without being disadvantaged.

Some universities offer instruction in English which would be a good way to go, although a good standard of social German would be needed as well.

Most unis offer a semester or year exchange with European unis which would be worth looking into.

Friend's DS is currently doing an Erasmus year at a German university. He has German A level, done several German exchanges and has German relatives so as spent a lot of time in German speaking countries. His parents often speak in German at meals - so he's had lots of practice. He's found it hard going - basically he hasn't got sufficient vocabulary and the lecturers all speak too quickly.

I studied maths in Dresden for a year under the Erasmus programme. I had German A-level and as my degree was Maths With Study in Europe, I got to take some German modules in the first couple of years of my degree as preparation too. Following the language in the lectures was fine; sitting oral exams was interesting though!

My husband also studied computer science in Germany for a year, he didn't even have German A-level and he got by. His year didn't count towards his degree though.

My experience (in 1998) was that English universities were desperate for students to send to Germany because there were loads of German students who wanted to study in England and it was meant to be an exchange programme. On my maths degree I was the only student to go to Germany, although there were a few who went to France. Maths/science students just don't tend to do languages too.