"christian"school advice sought!

[miggy]

Would you be worried if your childs school was becoming more religous? (please no offence committed christians)
My 3 go to a prep school that has always called itself a "christian" school. To be honest we looked round the school and liked it and took "christian" to equate to a c of e primary school. The oldest has been there 8 yrs now and is due to leave this year.
Realised quickly that "christian" really did mean "christian" as in most staff involved with church and prob about 50% of parents, alpha courses/retreats that kind of thing. Personally we have no particular beliefs but have been happy for children to be taught christianity and make up their own minds.
Niggling worries started emerging when DS1 was taught creationism in science (for evolution and solar system) not a passing mention of any alternatives (slight problem as he wants to be a paleontologist!).
Now the current head, who has been there about a squillion years, is retiring. The advert for the headship was couched in very odd language, something like "must adhere to central christian tenets" which someone has told me means that they must be a certain type of evangelical christian?
My worry is that firstly they are really narrowing down the pool of candidates and secondly what a younger, even more religous head might do to the school.
My friend, who happens to have a degree in theology, has approached the governors about this who have said, "well we dont want you here just for your fees" which I feel means "bog off if you dont like it!"
NB not trying to start a religous debate, there is nothing wrong with being an evangelical christian, just that we arent!

Arrange to talk to the Head about evolving (hah!) school policy, and what does he/she think is the governors vision for the future? And if it doesn't suit you vision of your child's education, then look elsewhere.

If I was in your situation, the questions would be around the education part of the education, iyswim, (since braodly you are happy that it is a christian school)and I wouldn't be happy to send my child to a school that taught creationism and no alternative theory.

But I think you should talk to the school direct about what their policy / vision is rather than try and 'detect' it from clues.

No offence taken at all. There was a similar thread a little while ago.
I think though, that if you choose to send your child to a Christian (CofE) school, then you should expect nothing less than Christian teaching, and probable invitation/encouragement for your child to join in Christian/Bible based activities as well as National Cirriculum. I realise that some CofE schools are not as practising as others, but I guess this just shouldn't come as a surprise to non-christian parents who decide to send their children there. They should be made aware of the schools ethos when looking at the school and it should be outlined in the school prospectus.

blu-not that easy though is it to move kids, they love the school and there are lots of parts of it we love too and would be reluctant to leave.
My friends have tried to have that discussion and didnt get very far, thats why Im a bit worried

Aero-glad no offence! am more than happy for them to be taught christian values, have chapel every day etc just getting worried that it is getting too fundamentalist if you like. Some other parents have had children go there from C of e schools and say it is much more religous with much less teaching of other religions etc.

I would not read too much into the wording 'must believe in central Christian tenets'. This is exactly what I would expect in a Church school, and I would take it to mean exactly what it says; that is, that the new head should be a Christian and should believe in the fundamental elements of Christian belief (that Jesus was the son of God, that he was born of a virgin, that he died for the remission of sins and that he rose from the dead). In fact, I would read this more 'liberally' to mean that, while the school may be broadly C of E, members of other Christian denominations (say, Methodists, or even Catholics) should not be put off from applying. It doesn't scream 'evangelical' to me, though of course I may be wrong. The only way that you will know exactly what the school is looking for is by talking to the governors and asking. If it's a good school, though, the candidates' educational criteria should be more important than their religious ones. (I'm a parent governor and would be worried if it were the other way around.)

I would find the teaching of creationism (exclusively) quite worrying, though, I must say. That does sound a bit too evangelical for my taste.

I veer between describing myself as an agnostic and a non-practising Christian, but (for reasons to do with my job...) I know quite a lot about religious thought. I am actually very keen for my dds to learn about the central tenets of Christianity (which for me does not include the idea that God created the world in 7 days) and the stories that go with them. They are so central to all aspects of our (European, I mean) culture, and so many things in art, literature, music and goodness knows what else make more sense once you know these stories. Tbh, even if you see them as just one mythology among many, they are certainly one of the key mythologies (if not THE key one) of our history and culture. My turn now to apologise to committed Christians... sorry if that's an offensive way of looking at it.

Anyway, Miggy, I really hope that your school gets a good Head who will care about education first and foremost. Good luck.

I would not read too much into the wording 'must believe in central Christian tenets'. This is exactly what I would expect in a Church school, and I would take it to mean exactly what it says; that is, that the new head should be a Christian and should believe in the fundamental elements of Christian belief (that Jesus was the son of God, that he was born of a virgin, that he died for the remission of sins and that he rose from the dead). In fact, I would read this more 'liberally' to mean that, while the school may be broadly C of E, members of other Christian denominations (say, Methodists, or even Catholics) should not be put off from applying. It doesn't scream 'evangelical' to me, though of course I may be wrong. The only way that you will know exactly what the school is looking for is by talking to the governors and asking. If it's a good school, though, the candidates' educational criteria should be more important than their religious ones. (I'm a parent governor and would be worried if it were the other way around.)

I would find the teaching of creationism (exclusively) quite worrying, though, I must say. That does sound a bit too evangelical for my taste.

I veer between describing myself as an agnostic and a non-practising Christian, but (for reasons to do with my job...) I know quite a lot about religious thought. I am actually very keen for my dds to learn about the central tenets of Christianity (which for me does not include the idea that God created the world in 7 days) and the stories that go with them. They are so central to all aspects of our (European, I mean) culture, and so many things in art, literature, music and goodness knows what else make more sense once you know these stories. Tbh, even if you see them as just one mythology among many, they are certainly one of the key mythologies (if not THE key one) of our history and culture. My turn now to apologise to committed Christians... sorry if that's an offensive way of looking at it.

Anyway, Miggy, I really hope that your school gets a good Head who will care about education first and foremost. Good luck.

Oh sorry... accidentally hit 'post' twice.

Teaching creationism exclusively is unfair to the children and a dereliction of the school's duty.

'Bog off if you don't like it' is exactly the attitude of dd's church school. It is effectively a community school as it cannot fill its foundation places. Most families send their kids there because it is the neighbourhood school (the nearest alternative is an awkward journey away). However it has all the privileges of a church school, though the church makes no financial contribution.

Crazy system. Why does the government want to allow even more 'faith' schools? Especially as they're so concerned about being ripped off when it comes to things like benefits.

We want dd to be at school with her friends and neighbours but we have to be vigilant. For example she came home from one lesson (with the deputy head) saying 'with Jesus on our side, we can do anything we like, even if it's dangerous, because he will protect us'. She was five and I'm sure she was paraphrasing but that was the message she took away.

Not v helpful, sorry.

Agree to an extent with Ellbell in that if it is broadly a CofE school, that other Christian denominations should not be put off from applying, but if it is a practising Christian school, as ours is, then I would fully expect the HT to be a practising Christian. This may narrow the pool of candidates, but having gone through a change of headship last year, (which if you're happy with the previous head, is a scary business regardless of whichever school your children attend) doesn't ultimitely mean you'll get a 'younger, more religious head'. What is important is that the powers that be choose the right head for the school. It is more than likely though that the people who will apply for this position will themselves be practising Christians.

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Evolution forms part of the GCSE science curriculum (part of the National Curriculm) so I would imagine they would have to teach it. it doesn't crop up before that (except in very general terms as part of year 9 studies on inheritance). So I don't see how they can avoud teaching evolution

If the school is Christian, then I would expect them to stress this when advertising for a new head. In my experience heads make or break a school. I would think though that if it hasn't been a "ram it down your throat" kind of school up to now, it is unlikely the governors would want to appoint a new head that would change this radically. At the end of the day though you have chosen to send your children to a Christian school so I think you need to be prepared to support the ethos, or leave the school for the people who do.

I went to a qwaker school "friends school" even though it was not a state school it didnt feel any different apart from the fact that assembly had prayers. The head there had to be a quaker which is fair enough if you ask me they didnt force us to believe and havent changed my beliefs in any way

My two go to a Christian School. It wasn't a choice issue as it's the catchment school for a few small streets where we happen to live, something to do with charitable funding? They're endowed. I am very religiously tolerant- to the extent that i am studying a degree in World religion at the mo- but I Do find them OT. Like when my kids come home going, 'Mummy, I do love God' otr when they worship three times a day, every day.... all gets a bit much.

If they start teaching Creationism I will flip though! As an option ok, I can balance that i guess, but education is about widening the mond surely?

This is a hot topic in our house as well. The dds go to an infant school which is non-denominational but which feeeds into a CofE Junior school (both good state schools in our catchment area).

The dds are issued with bibles which stay in their drawer, they are not allowed to bring them home. Dh and I are atheists. We are researching the national curriculum to find out whether we have any grounds at this stage to question the dominant religion being taught in the infants (last year, the reception children re-enacted the story of the crucifixion - using ribena for vinegar and a straw crown of thorns. Don't know if they were lashed as well). The school says it teaches comparative religions, but there is no sign of any of the more commonly known festivals being celebrated.

I think that whilst we are still telling them stories ourselves (santa and the tooth fairy for example) I can handle bible stories which illustrate values we share. But beyond that I will feel very uncomfortable. We are looking now at non-denominational junior schools we could apply to.

there's a big big difference in my mind between having mildly religious assemblies/ a focus on christianity and teaching creationism in science. i personally would pull my children out of that school faster than you can say christmas. (I would also be very upset about the reception children doing a crucifixion play as it goes, but not enough to change schools)

But if you don't mind the current head, I don't think "must adhere to central christian tenets" is necessarily cause for alarm. It could mean they will accept a humanist (seeing as humanists live by the central christian tenets of love thy neighbour etc), or someone from a minority christian sect. OTOH it could be code for "must be a raging homophobe and literalist" but I doubt it - think they would have been clearer.

The teaching of other religiosn is difficult. I was worroed as DS's school doent appear to teach any so I volunteered to go in (they did request help btw) and help, seing as I want to train with a PGCE at the end of my world religiosn degree anyway. They just looked at me like I was a loon- great for the prospectus, but maybe not in real life perhaps?

Miggy, is the school linked to a particular church? If it is then a visit to that church will give you an insight into the values of the school.

My church is a happy-clappy, evangelical former "house" church which runs a private primary school. A fair number of the church are creationalists, and the school teaches this. As far as curriculum is concerned this is one of only 2 key variances that I can think of - the other is that I don't think that they cover any form of sex education in Year 6 (or previously).

But as with all private schools different standards apply, so you should also look at the qualifications of the satff for example - some could just be people brought into help from the church without any teaching experience or qualifications. Again I have observed that the school will have a lot of short-sighted initiatives introduced because of events happening in the local church. It is fairly typical that the views of parents (other than church leaders) are not highly regarded. Again in my church's school I have observed a former nanny with no teaching experience, brought into to teach reception. Teachers are often on less than average salaries, and therefore you will either get people who are motivated in a particular way, or people who can't get teaching positions elsewhere.

I don't think that the "Christian" aspect is the bit that should worry you necessarily - the concern that I would have is over the management of the school and the qualifications of the staff. That said, if your oldest one has been there for 8 years, presumably you would know by now if there were anything else that would be controversial (eg encouraging the children to pray in tongues in assembly)?