Oxbridge and journalism

[pigeonfeathers]

My DS1 is in last year at a RG university. He really wants to be a sports journalist. He has a blog and has an offer of a month's work experience at a broadsheet newspaper after he has graduated He also has done two stints of work experience at specialist sports magazines in the past.

He is considering applying to take an MA in Journalism at Cardiff which we would support and finance,as we would at anywhere else to be honest, due to the recession/lack of jobs etc.

My only concern is that, in reality, most successful journalists on broadsheet papers seem to be Oxbridge educated.

Are there any journalists on here who would like to shed a light as to whether he really stands a cat's in hell chance of ever making it on to a newspaper if he isn't from an Oxbridge background????

And is it worth taking an MA in Journalism at all????

I have a friend who's a successful broadsheet journalist (not sports, though) who did the Cardiff MA. Did also go to oxford. I have another acquaintance who has also worked for years in broadsheet journalism who I'm pretty sure went to Bristol. Know it wasn't Oxbridge. I would say go for it, build up a portfolio of work and be prepared to take a more humble job initially (Cardiff evening news sort of thing). The work experience sounds a fantastic opportunity; he could make some good contacts and must keep in touch with them. They will surely give him lots of advice too.

Friend of mine is a journalist on a national broadsheet. She went to an RG uni. She has said she is in a minority not being Oxbridge educated. Suggest your son networks, networks & networks!

There's also the course at City that is well regarded.

Sorry to rain on your parade but did you read this thread? It makes it sound as if journalism is very difficult to get into and not very lucrative when you do get there.
DS was interested at one stage, until a chat with a journalist made it sound as if it is all Dead Man's Shoes.

A lot of journalism is based in London. I would have thought that subbing his living costs in London for a year while he does internships and builds contacts was a better investment.

Thanks for the replies!!

Yes, Senua, this is what we are trying to weigh up whether it is worth doing the MA (and whether it is regarded as a waste of time or useful by future employers...) or just trying his luck writing bits and pieces and keeping up his blog and hoping he gets on that way.

He got the work experience at one of the magazines by sending his blog to the editor and they actually read it and emailed back pretty quickly to offer a week working in London last summer :), but it didnt really lead to anything. Need to quiz him more deeply about what he actually did there and whether he made any proper contacts etc!!

It's a few years ago, but my brother did an MA at Preston (good degree, RG university) and is now working for the Guardian.

There are a lot of Oxbridge people, and also a lot of nepotistic contacts - but these people tend to be the ones who make a lot of noise. There are also a load of hard-working news and sports journalists like my bro, who got there through hard work and who are actually producing news, so I think he should go for it.

ooh that's interesting onesandwich, will look up Preston now. Is that affiliated with Lancaster University???

I don't rightly know, I'm afraid. But I think that Cardiff is as well-regarded - or was. But I'd try and get him to talk to a few of the contacts he's made, and see which ones are good now (I am ancient, and bro did it a while back now!).

I posted on thread senua linked to; no idea re Oxbridge as never really worked on nationals.

But I was a regional print journalist for more than 20 years - made a decent living but it's quite clear to me that if I had spent that time being a teacher I'd be on about £35k+ (Teacher is bolded as that's hardly considered a well-paid career, even tho it should be).

No one on my old paper is on that kind of money except the editor and dep editor.

Note - my "old" paper as I was made redundant 15 months ago and now work in another area after failing to get a journalism job. I did not want to relocate however - a lot more available in London.

The way to get on on nats used to be to do unpopular shifts (Saturday night etc) and get yr name known - hard work and poorly paid and you need to live in London (£££) but can lead to a really good job if you are good, hard-working and lucky, frankly.

Cardiff post-grad course is well regarded and always used to lead to a job. Not sure if that is still true tho in these days of no print jobs, reporters writing headlines, no ad revenue on regionals etc.

All that said, good luck to yr DS, blog and work exp all sound good, why not let him have a go - he's nothing to lose I guess and no ties to limit him?

\link{http://www.uclan.ac.uk/information/courses/index.php?discipline=Journalism&level=Postgraduate&study_mode=All/\I'd guess UCLan is where onesandwich's brother went} - formerly Preston Poly, but it's been a university for a long time & is well regarded in many fields

\link{http://www.journalism.co.uk/news/postgraduate-degrees-pay-off-for-journalism-students-survey-shows/s2/a540191/\journalism.co.uk on postgrad training}

"The highest overall satisfaction figure was received by Sheffield University from 95 per cent of journalism students, closely followed by the University of Central Lancashire with 94 per cent"

Thanks very much for all your replies.

Will pass the info onto him. Luckily he's not particularly hell bent on making as much money as possible(good job...), and is fairly low maintenance as far as materialistic things go :).

I think he will def apply for the Cardiff MA but look into other places too. Is already quite keen on Sheffield too, so galad to hear that's a good one. Will investigate Preston too.

It's hard trying to concentrate on finals/dissertation whilst also trying to sort out some kind of career plan at same time!

pigeon, DH is a sports journalist. He's never worked on the broadsheets but has worked for News International, Sky Sports and Manchester United. He studied at Reading and Nottingham unis.

The Cardiff MA is a horses for courses situation, ie if your DS fancies it, it certainly won't do him any harm, but neither is it essential.

Has your DS considered combining further studying with on-the-job training? The Guardian offers student bursaries which lead to a post-grad qualification. Check out www.gmgplc.co.uk/the-scott-trust (not sure if I'm allowed to post links like this, but it's purely for information, we don't have any connection to them, personal or professional).

Otherwise, DH advises that your DS continues to try to increase his work experience - he wrote sports reports for university magazines and then did the same for local newspapers. I don't know where you're based but Haymarket (which publishes 4-4-2 and World Soccer, among others) offer work experience to students. They're based in Teddington and they will give him proper work to do, writing match reports and the like.

Senua is right, he won't make any money, but if your DS likes a sport enough to want to travel round the world following it, there are worse ways to live. Obviously I don't let DH swan off any more now that we have a family but he says it used to be fun when he was allowed to

Thank you mattelie and your DH! He sounds like he has DS' dream job.

Actually there was a thing in the Guardian yesterday re the ScottTrust, which he is going to look into, although I am not sure he fits the criteria (not from a under-represented background, unless being non Oxbridge counts :)). I think it will be worth him applying though, he has nothing to lose.....

My cousin is a sports journalist and I was a broadcast journalist for years.

I hate to say it but family connections really help - my uncle is a sports journo and my dad was a broadcast journalist so we both knew loads of people and knew our way round the system iyswim before we even started. It also meant getting work experience was much easier.

I went to a RG uni and did the City uni postgrad diploma in broadcast journalism (after working for next to nothing in community video for a few months). I didn't actually do the last third of the post=grad course (although went back to do exams so got my certificate) as I got three job offers from my work placements. It's the work placements which are the really useful bit of any MA or diploma rather than the qualification itself (which no-one has ever wanted to see!)

My cousin went to Cambridge and then did an MA in politics at Harvard, but was writing all the way through for student publications and getting work experience with his dad in the holidays

Also agree with previous posters - very, very few journalists make much money - BBC staffers are not exactly rolling in it but at least it's steady (or always used to be) - making a living as a freelance is precarious indeed. The only people who earn a decent amount are the 'star' columnists or the people who become editors or 'suits' - dh went into management and is now earning at least double what he'd be earning if he'd stayed as a journalist

It was a fantastic job pre-DC though ... I loved it but trying to combine it with three kids and dh who travels all the time was just too stressful

Thanks Basildonbond. That's v interesting but the family connections makes it even worse as we have NO relatives even remotely involved with journalism (perhaps he could add that to the 'under represented' bit on the Guardian bursary application too :))

Hi, I did my BA degree in journalism at UCLAN and I chose it for it's fantastic reputation as an excellent course. I assume the MA would be just as good. Word of warning though-spent all my summers doing work experience and internships, including three months at CBS in New York and I still never managed to get a job in journalism, despite trying for a year after graduating. I agree with other posters-it's who you know.

Sorry, ITS. Stupid iPhone autocorrect!

I have four friends who are successful journalists. Three have parents who are in the same profession and two have parents who are household names. The most senior and successful (editor of a section for a broadsheet) does not have the family connection but,like others above, suggested a different career!

Agree with Medea - not so much Oxbridge links as appalling nepotism in most print media these days

I did a PGDip at City, am Oxbridge graduate, and am, actually, a sports journalist.. but of a very unique type so certainly not broadsheet cross-sport reporter.

I would say if he;s got his heart set on nationals then strongly consider City, it is very well connected that way. Also because he would be based in London he will be more likely to pick up nationals work experience there - when I was there they were VERY hot on work experience, with placements every holiday, to the extent that you really wanted to try and get Christmas placements sewn up before you even arrived there in September.

Also lots of us did night shifts on Guardian online, YouGov etc and am sure something similar would present itself nowadays.

I wouldn't worry too much about the Oxbridge connection, or lack thereof. At City there were a lot of us there, but actually they did a lot to beat any kind of superiority complex out of us. Many of the best candidates in my peer group were RG instead.

But I would suggest he gets involved in whatever student journalism is going on in his current uni, as THAT is where a lot of networking begins. There are awards for the best reporters in lots of sections, and student sports journalism is very competitive, so I'd strongly recommend he gets involved there.

Also local papers are a good way of building up more work experience time without heavy costs involved in living away from home.

I don't know what the City/Cardiff MA includes these days. In my day the PG Dip WAS worth doing because it provided a very useful transition from academic to work-orientated study. We did shorthand & law, which I'd say are pretty much essential, plus govt structure, subbing, and some page layout work. All bar the govt structure (and now the shorthand, which I've forgotten), I still use on a daily basis 10 years on. YOu can learn on the job, but I think you're more likely to leap-frog onto a broadsheet or large regional without going through your NCTJ exams at a local paper if you have something as well regarding as the City/Cardiff courses under your belt.

well regarded obviously. I can spell, honest...

Oh, and without giving too much away about what I do, I'd say think outside the box a bit. The world and his dog wants to write about football, but if your son has a good working knowledge of something more obscure, particularly a sport that Britain has a chance of medalling in at 2012, then that could be a really key way in.

i was going to say the same as dastardly - i am a journo in another field and I think the key is to be good at something - eg be good in a sport. What sport does he do? Could he write for a triathlon mag, or similar? He has to think what is he offering that others can't? What subject knowledge is he bringing to it? Can he be a coach at the same time? That can bring in good money alongside the writing and mean that he develops good contacts among actual sports people.

I think that is where he will find work and on-job development. I'm not oxbridge nor are many journos that I know.

I've namechanged, am a mn regular, I went to Cambridge, City Uni and then worked in broadsheets for 12 years and have freelanced for national papers for 8 or so.

There are a lot of Oxbridge people in journalism but it is by no means essential - for every Oxbridge friend of mine I can think of a non Oxbridge or non uni-educated at all. What's important is passion, commitment and flair. I do think the City and Cardiff courses are excellent - of my year in City virtually everyone is in a successful media career and looking at the alumni list that's where nearly anyone who is anyone now has passed through.

I would add that, as others say, journalism is increasingly badly paid and obviously the future of the entire industry is in jeopardy. However, it is the most fantastic job and I have had amazing fun and adventures

Justed wanted to say, my other half and I left University of Central Lancashire 2 years ago, He should enjoy himself. They have some VERY VERY GOOD lecturers there!